Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Aug 17, 2019 16:52:49 GMT -8
"4 Days Out" [2x09]
One big problem Breaking Bad has as a show is that it is very much the Walt show, and every character is interesting exclusively in relation to Walt, but despite this the writers insist on lavishing screentime on characters who are not Walt. Hank, for instance, is at his best when he's in conflict with Walt in some way and less interesting when he's off having PTSD or whatever. Skyler actually is a reasonably interesting character, but she's not interesting in and of herself, much as I hate to say it. Let's not even start with Marie.
"4 Days Out" nicely sidesteps this problem by going all-in on the best characters of the series, just dedicating almost the entire episode to a Walt-Jesse adventure, almost a bottle episode. Walt gets to be a surrogate dad, in ways both innocent (chastising Jesse for eating too much junk food and too little protein) and less so (calling him an idiot, but in a dadly way). It's all very funny, which is odd for an episode where Walt chooses to accept his impending death - only to realize that death is coming much later than he thinks it will, and that he'll now have to live with the consequences of his actions. But that's Breaking Bad for you.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Aug 21, 2019 15:32:03 GMT -8
"Over" [2x10]
Walt is such a dad. I think his dadliest tendency is the way he "helps" around the household not by actually taking on his wife's burdens, but by participating in self-serving behavior that ultimately does not contribute to household upkeep in any meaningful fashion. This is perhaps most obvious in episodes like this one and "Down," but ultimately it is the whole premise of the series - Walt cares about the wellbeing of his family, but ultimately only as a means by which he can consider himself a provider. He wants to be a family man more than he wants his actual family.
The fantastic scene where Walt pushes his underage son to drink while Hank objects is a great example of this. The overall arc of these two men is really interesting: Walt ultimately desires the power and authority that Hank has as a DEA agent, while Hank slowly comes to realize that he doesn't want this power and begins to cede it. In hindsight we can see them slowly trading places, and this episode is the point where those lines intersect.
"Mandala" [2x11]
Gus Fring! It's impossible to be aware of Breaking Bad in 2019 and not know that Giancarlo Esposito is going to have a huge role in the series. As far as I'm concerned this episode is more or less a two-parter with "Phoenix," or if we're being more accurate the same episode as "Phoenix" - an episode bookended with a death and a birth, as we see the real death of Walt and the sort of birth of Heisenberg - first with him picking meth over his daughter, and then with him, well, you know what.
This episode isn't all that great on its own though. Part of this is that we have more Beneke bullshit to deal with. Ted is terrible in much the same way Marie is, by which I mean he has two degrees of separation from Walt vs. Skyler's one so we don't care about him at all, but in this episode he is both creepy and boring. Get your pregnant employee to do a Marilyn Monroe impression, why don't you. Oh and he's a criminal too, to save his "family." Just like Walt! How subtle.
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Post by otherscott on Aug 22, 2019 12:43:20 GMT -8
Breaking Bad really struggled with its non-Walt related stories in Season 2. It gets better at it in Season 3, and then I guess it mostly just drops the non-Walt related stories at some point? I've never actually rewatched the last half of the series.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Aug 22, 2019 18:05:51 GMT -8
"Phoenix" [2x12]
Now, any discussion of this episode has to begin with the ending. The path of getting to this ending is so forced, so based on wild coincidence, that it shouldn't really work. And yet, it does. I couldn't breathe for a full minute after watching Jane's death. It's so brutal, but it's over so quickly, and with such subtlety. Bryan Cranston's face says so much with so little. It's an incredible scene, really.
Does the rest of the episode work? Hm. I'd say yes. Surprisingly, I think Jesse and Jane get the best material this episode, even though I don't super care for them individually or together. John de Lancie is also really good both here and in the episode immediately following it. In many ways Donald Margolis is the anti-Walt: a man who truly loves and needs his family. Where Walt has largely given up on his son, Donald refuses to give up on his daughter. Where Walt explodes, he implodes. That's the irony of their scene together - to the untrained eye they're similar men but they couldn't be more different.
"ABQ" [2x13]
Let's say it together - Poor Jesse.
What really bothers me about this episode, though, is Walt Jr. Suddenly, he really cares about his dad again? Huh? When did that happen? It's such a weird 180 which is so clearly meant for dramatic irony purposes, but I don't think the show even needed it. Very odd. That being said, we get some great performances from the supporting players. Skyler gets her best moment of the show. Mike comes in and is great. Jesse is Jesse.
Did the whole season come together? Hm... I can't say. Maybe you all have opinions now that we can discuss spoiler-free.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Aug 23, 2019 19:54:03 GMT -8
"Phoenix" [2x12] Now, any discussion of this episode has to begin with the ending. The path of getting to this ending is so forced, so based on wild coincidence, that it shouldn't really work. And yet, it does. I couldn't breathe for a full minute after watching Jane's death. It's so brutal, but it's over so quickly, and with such subtlety. Bryan Cranston's face says so much with so little. It's an incredible scene, really. Does the rest of the episode work? Hm. I'd say yes. Surprisingly, I think Jesse and Jane get the best material this episode, even though I don't super care for them individually or together. John de Lancie is also really good both here and in the episode immediately following it. In many ways Donald Margolis is the anti-Walt: a man who truly loves and needs his family. Where Walt has largely given up on his son, Donald refuses to give up on his daughter. Where Walt explodes, he implodes. That's the irony of their scene together - to the untrained eye they're similar men but they couldn't be more different. "ABQ" [2x13] Let's say it together - Poor Jesse. What really bothers me about this episode, though, is Walt Jr. Suddenly, he really cares about his dad again? Huh? When did that happen? It's such a weird 180 which is so clearly meant for dramatic irony purposes, but I don't think the show even needed it. Very odd. That being said, we get some great performances from the supporting players. Skyler gets her best moment of the show. Mike comes in and is great. Jesse is Jesse. Did the whole season come together? Hm... I can't say. Maybe you all have opinions now that we can discuss spoiler-free. Sure, let's discuss. I'm not an expert on air-traffic controllers, but *one* of them causing a crash seems far-fetched. And if this is the case, then no one would let a man come into such an important job immediately after losing his daughter-and whoever did shares a lot of the blame for the crash along with Walter. Aside from my thematic issues with the season, I don't find most of the episodes all that great. Sure, "4 Days Out" and "Phoenix" exist, but they otherwise leave me a bit cold. Solid drama to be sure, but far from being one of the greatest stories ever told-at least for now. Perhaps the weight of expectations got to me. But honestly, I don't really care about Breaking Bad's characters aside from the titular duo and I don't enjoy spending time in its world (it's far too bleak for that), so anything sluggish (and despite its reputation as a moving bullet train, many episodes of Breaking Bad are paced at the speed of a moving glacier) and not directly related to Walter's descent into villainy was always going to leave me a bit cold, I expect.
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Post by otherscott on Sept 12, 2019 6:48:12 GMT -8
Where are you with the show now, Quiara? I believe you said in another thread this isn't anywhere near a pantheon show for you.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Sept 12, 2019 20:08:18 GMT -8
Where are you with the show now, Quiara? I believe you said in another thread this isn't anywhere near a pantheon show for you. Just watched "Madrigal." I think the show's gotten kind of dour in ways that aren't nearly as compelling as the writers seem to think they are; I think the show's look is getting kind of gimmicky, not to mention at odds with that dourness. I still think the show is good, but I think the early seasons are a lot more interesting than these dour seasons where every episode ends with Walt and Jesse in mortal danger! Zzzz.
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Post by otherscott on Sept 13, 2019 7:27:15 GMT -8
Breaking Bad is one of those shows where I can very easily see both the criticisms and the praises for it, so there's a lot of variability on my opinion of it at any particular time. It does tension extremely well, but to actually feel that tension you have to still have a bit of buy in on the characters. If you've lost any sort of feeling or sympathy for the characters, or most of it anyways, then it does become very dour.
The issue of course is that the show does all it can to try to pull that sympathy from you, because that's what its thematic focus is. So it's a very tight balancing act. I tend to think the show is brilliant at tension and brilliant at dealing with the character of Walter White and particularly his relationship with Jesse. But it has enough parts of it that are average that I think I've settled in to having it outside my top 5 shows of all time. (Just outside)
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Post by filibanfi on Sept 14, 2019 13:13:32 GMT -8
Breaking Bad is one of those shows where I can very easily see both the criticisms and the praises for it, so there's a lot of variability on my opinion of it at any particular time. Second this. I think Gilligan had (or at least gives the impression he did) such a grasp on the story and characters' direction and such an attention to detail that it made it so easy to forget some choices that, although harmless in the sense that they didn't damage any relevant aspect of the show in the slightest, gave off the impression of being pointless and pretentious in a way Breaking Bad usually wasn't. And although many fans would sadly point to the "Fly" episode given the description I wrote, I'm actually referring to those kind of scenes, mainly in the last few seasons, where several shots and bizarre camera movements seemed to purposefully be there as a show-off of technical achievement and nothing more - some examples I can think of on the top of my head are scenes directed from the POVs of a shovel and a Roomba. Yeah, those scenes really encapsulate what is probably the main problem I have with the whole show, along with its generally really effective but still a bit too narrow narrative structure. I also think it's kind of underrated how nicely the first season was shaping out to be simply as a portrait of an ill man, before it really made that turn that got it deep in the criminal aspect. I'd probably rank it higher than the first half of Season Five, whose only stand-out episode I recall being "Fifty-One". What do y'all think about the upcoming Netflix film? How do you expect it to turn out? Although I lost track with it in the last season, for my fault and not the show's really, Better Call Saul gives me confidence it will be well-done but they'll have to convince me it was needed in the first place.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Sept 14, 2019 17:30:02 GMT -8
Breaking Bad is one of those shows where I can very easily see both the criticisms and the praises for it, so there's a lot of variability on my opinion of it at any particular time. It does tension extremely well, but to actually feel that tension you have to still have a bit of buy in on the characters. If you've lost any sort of feeling or sympathy for the characters, or most of it anyways, then it does become very dour. The issue of course is that the show does all it can to try to pull that sympathy from you, because that's what its thematic focus is. So it's a very tight balancing act. I tend to think the show is brilliant at tension and brilliant at dealing with the character of Walter White and particularly his relationship with Jesse. But it has enough parts of it that are average that I think I've settled in to having it outside my top 5 shows of all time. (Just outside) Are you talking objectively or subjectively? That's a rabbit hole this site's already been down big time, but I think it matters. I recognize the craft behind the series, but it's definitely not one of my favorites. I wish it was-but it isn't. Also, Filibanfi just described the Mike half of Better Call Saul. I've been catching up with the show, and I think the Jimmy parts are fantastic-I like them more than Breaking Bad. They're everything a great prequel should be: They adds richness and depth to the original work while fitting in quite neatly. The Mike sections feel completely perfunctory and unnecessary. Art isn't a science, but in this case, BCS is about half A/A+ tv and half C+/B- tv. It's a very odd experience.
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Post by otherscott on Sept 16, 2019 10:33:00 GMT -8
Are you talking objectively or subjectively? That's a rabbit hole this site's already been down big time, but I think it matters. I recognize the craft behind the series, but it's definitely not one of my favorites. I wish it was-but it isn't. Also, Filibanfi just described the Mike half of Better Call Saul. I've been catching up with the show, and I think the Jimmy parts are fantastic-I like them more than Breaking Bad. They're everything a great prequel should be: They adds richness and depth to the original work while fitting in quite neatly. The Mike sections feel completely perfunctory and unnecessary. Art isn't a science, but in this case, BCS is about half A/A+ tv and half C+/B- tv. It's a very odd experience. I don't really believe in objective measurements of TV series. If the craft of the show isn't doing anything for you to increase your enjoyment, it's pretty much useless. So I'm talking subjectively. On the balance I think Breaking Bad is terrific. There are just occasionally sometimes things that stand out as less than great.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Sept 16, 2019 16:30:16 GMT -8
Are you talking objectively or subjectively? That's a rabbit hole this site's already been down big time, but I think it matters. I recognize the craft behind the series, but it's definitely not one of my favorites. I wish it was-but it isn't. Also, Filibanfi just described the Mike half of Better Call Saul. I've been catching up with the show, and I think the Jimmy parts are fantastic-I like them more than Breaking Bad. They're everything a great prequel should be: They adds richness and depth to the original work while fitting in quite neatly. The Mike sections feel completely perfunctory and unnecessary. Art isn't a science, but in this case, BCS is about half A/A+ tv and half C+/B- tv. It's a very odd experience. I don't really believe in objective measurements of TV series. If the craft of the show isn't doing anything for you to increase your enjoyment, it's pretty much useless. So I'm talking subjectively. On the balance I think Breaking Bad is terrific. There are just occasionally sometimes things that stand out as less than great. I agree. Expectations can really do a series in, and I think that was the case for me. It had already been praise to the high heavens by the time I watched. It's still a towering accomplishment.
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Post by Jeremy on Sept 16, 2019 17:41:49 GMT -8
I do wonder how well Breaking Bad will stack up in most critics' estimations of "Best of the Decade." It was obviously a rip-roaring hit, but it seems like critics have moved on to other things in the years since.
Maybe El Camino will reinvigorate the buzz. Not sure if the film is good or necessary, but hey, I said the same thing about Better Call Saul once upon a time.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Sept 18, 2019 16:34:53 GMT -8
I'm not close enough to the end of the series to say this for certain, but I think one of the big reasons I'm not so huge on this show can be summed up as such: going into this show, I heard a lot about what a great villain Gus Fring is. And Giancarlo Esposito is good! But I actually feel very comfortable saying that, despite only being halfway through the season, I think Lydia Rodarte-Quayle is the better villain.
This might be anti-hype (since I've never heard anyone even mention Lydia before I started watching the series), but there's a more compelling reason for that, which is that I think both the show's writers and the show's fandom overrated how interesting it is for characters to be untouchable in their evil. I think Walt is significantly more interesting in the early seasons, when he's an awful and manipulative person, but he's not actually very good at being an awful and manipulative person, and when most of his really awful deeds (e.g., Jane, making Jesse kill Gale) are not premeditated evil, but consequences of him being in over his head, things that could have been avoided if he was an evil genius like Gus. I think it's tempting to describe Gus as a power fantasy, but I think the more accurate term is to call him a Mary Sue - he's too perfect in his evil. Versus a weasel like Lydia, who is in over her head and comically bad at pulling off her schemes, but still poses a legitimate threat long-term even as she's a reluctant ally in the short-term.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Sept 18, 2019 17:02:39 GMT -8
I'm not close enough to the end of the series to say this for certain, but I think one of the big reasons I'm not so huge on this show can be summed up as such: going into this show, I heard a lot about what a great villain Gus Fring is. And Giancarlo Esposito is good! But I actually feel very comfortable saying that, despite only being halfway through the season, I think Lydia Rodarte-Quayle is the better villain. This might be anti-hype (since I've never heard anyone even mention Lydia before I started watching the series), but there's a more compelling reason for that, which is that I think both the show's writers and the show's fandom overrated how interesting it is for characters to be untouchable in their evil. I think Walt is significantly more interesting in the early seasons, when he's an awful and manipulative person, but he's not actually very good at being an awful and manipulative person, and when most of his really awful deeds (e.g., Jane, making Jesse kill Gale) are not premeditated evil, but consequences of him being in over his head, things that could have been avoided if he was an evil genius like Gus. I think it's tempting to describe Gus as a power fantasy, but I think the more accurate term is to call him a Mary Sue - he's too perfect in his evil. Versus a weasel like Lydia, who is in over her head and comically bad at pulling off her schemes, but still poses a legitimate threat long-term even as she's a reluctant ally in the short-term. Yeah, I can see that. Gus was perhaps a little too perfect. Though-"Hermanos" does a nice job of penetrating his smooth exterior. The scene itself was great, as was the pay-off in "Salud". I do think that played into Gilligan's penchant for divine retribution, which is oddly unsatisfying. I don't really like it when villains get exactly what they deserve in a straightforward manner for some reason. Curious what you think of "Felina". I certainly wouldn't say it was bad, but I didn't really care for it.
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