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Post by Jeremy on Nov 6, 2019 20:23:28 GMT -8
The problem with designating the start of the streaming era as the start of great TV this decade (apart from the fact that plenty of great TV existed in 2010-12) is that no self-respecting critic is going to put House of Cards anywhere near the top of their Best of the Decade list, both because of the Kevin Spacey grossness and because House of Cards was... never really a critically beloved show.
The true dividing line between 2000s TV and 2010s TV (if there can be one) is probably Louie. It's not a show I particularly cared for, even before the Louis CK grossness (lord, Hollywood needs help), but it marks the transitional point of Prestige TV from "hourlong serialized drama about middle-aged white male antihero" to "half-hour semi-standalone auteurial comedy about anyone with a compelling story."
Think about how many of the best shows of the 2010s fit this mold. Bojack, Atlanta, Better Things, Enlightened, Master of None, Fleabag, even Review. None of these shows could have existed ten years ago - they would be too outre and too risky in an environment where comedy was considered the "safe" genre, even as drama was allowed to take big, bold risks on FX, AMC, and HBO.
And there were plenty of great dramas in the 2010s! including some which challenged the structure and tested the limits of the genre (like the various limited series and anthology shows). But when I think of what TV in this decade has been able to accomplish that the previous decade could not, I tend to think more of this new wave of comedies (or "Comedies in Theory," as Matt Zoller Seitz calls them).
Anyway, despite my very rambly tangent, I hope that answers your question.
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Post by otherscott on Nov 7, 2019 12:47:15 GMT -8
I think we can track back the origins of the half hour serious dramedy even further back than Louie, to before the decade began. Of all the possible networks, it was Showtime who dug into the concept the hardest. They had, on their network, all at the same time in 2009, United States of Tara, Nurse Jackie, The L Word and Weeds. Some of these shows built up a following over time, but really were maybe not as critically respected as the dramedies we see today. Maybe people ultimately thought they just weren't very funny.
The premiere of House of Cards to me is the biggest event of the decade from a television perspective. It came right as Breaking Bad was ending, Mad Men didn't have far to go either. Critics had no idea how to cover the show, as the most popular model back then was the episode by episode deep dives. Peak TV started, and it became harder and harder for shows to get eyeballs.
It's also around this time shows began to build themselves for one season rather than a long haul story. That really changed television storytelling as well. I'm not quite sure how that relates to Netflix making originals, but there is correlation there.
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 7, 2019 20:06:32 GMT -8
I'd say the half-hour dramedy can be traced back even earlier than that - Sports Night was using the format in 1998. The key difference between the Showtime-style dramedies of the 2000s and the "Comedies in Theory" of the 2010s is that the latter examples are more fiercely and independently creator-driven - they tend to be semi-autobiographical, scripted by just one or two people, and feature several episodes that are fundamentally plotless. It's like the writers are striving to make a short indie film every week. That's the sort of TV we didn't (and probably couldn't) have before this decade.
I agree that the debut of original streaming programs is the most important TV development of the decade, but I don't think that fundamentally boosts the stature of House of Cards as a game-changing show itself (especially since Lilyhammer technically precedes it as the first "Netflix original series"). It's a game-changing method, which has unfortunately produced mixed results in terms of streaming dramas, as we've discussed many times in the past.
The rise of the "limited series" that's really an ongoing show kicked off with American Horror Story, and while the format has bred some excellent series (Fargo, American Crime), I again doubt that many will consider the originator a "great" show simply for introducing the format.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Nov 7, 2019 20:30:40 GMT -8
I think we're misinterpreting my post - I'm not saying House of Cards gets on these year-end lists by dint of being The First Netflix Original (ok, maybe the second but who cares about Lilyhammer); I'm saying that the rise of the Netflix original might end up squeezing out some of those cult cable shows from earlier in the decade. (I mention Bunheads, that critical darling, because it does seem like a straggler from the aughts, that decade where cult hits got cancelled after one season instead of being picked up by a streaming service and extended ad infinitum.)
I also think the comedy-in-theory is gonna get glossed over, largely because I don't think anyone wants to go to bat for Louie in 2019 (ditto Transparent and to some extent Master of None).
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 7, 2019 21:11:31 GMT -8
Oh, I understood your point, though I only touched upon it briefly at the beginning of my response. To clarify, I think any critic who ignores the early part of the decade, whether the cancelled-too-soon shows (Bunheads, Terriers, Awake, etc.) or longer ones that ended in the early half of the decade (30 Rock, Treme, Boardwalk Empire) are being myopic.
I don't expect Louie to get a ton of end-of-decade plaudits for the reason you note, but several of the shows it inspired remain generally untainted. A bigger problem is... how much critical overlap is there between acclaimed shows anymore? Apart from Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones, there aren't that many series this decade that received love and attention across the board.
(Also, is it me, or does the thread title seem out of date?)
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Post by otherscott on Nov 8, 2019 7:56:52 GMT -8
The rise of the "limited series" that's really an ongoing show kicked off with American Horror Story, and while the format has bred some excellent series ( Fargo, American Crime), I again doubt that many will consider the originator a "great" show simply for introducing the format. I wasn't actually strictly talking about limited series in my post about shows built for one season. I'm talking about shows like Killing Eve, Handmaid's Tale, American Vandal, Big Little Lies, you can even throw The Leftovers in here in terms of shows that had one main story told over a single season, and then had to stretch that story to make more seasons. Even outside of limited series, we just aren't seeing shows built to tell a longer story. They're more like novels made into TV seasons than a traditional TV show. There has definitely been a rise of that in the past decade, and especially in the streaming age, and I'm not certain I can truly track what originates that. Looking at my preliminary Top 10 list for the year, more than half of them are going to be either Season 1's or miniseries, and I would say I don't have a single show that is guaranteed to make the list that is past Season 2. I will continue to stand up for Master of None. And that's all I will say on that because I don't want to get cancelled.
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 8, 2019 13:00:44 GMT -8
Ah, I see. Yes, the "one-season show that was retroactively turned into an ongoing series" is another issue with modern drama. And a relatively new one, since TV shows of the past were typically designed to be ongoing, no matter what. Not quite sure which series originated that trope, either, although you could apply it to many seasonal arc shows (24 could have logically been a one-season show - and probably should've been).
And you have no need to worry about being cancelled. Master of None is a great show, and Aziz Ansari did nothing wrong. And maybe if I keep saying it enough, other TV bloggers may start to believe it.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 1, 2019 19:20:57 GMT -8
With apologies to Quiara, I changed the thread title, which was a few months out of date, to something more on-point.
I'm also popping in to say that... the fun is about to start. You'll learn more shortly, but CT is sending this decade out with a bang.
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Post by ThirdMan on Dec 1, 2019 19:25:23 GMT -8
Forum orgy?
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 2, 2019 8:57:12 GMT -8
Thankfully, no. Instead, I'm starting the single most ambitious (and perhaps craziest) monthlong project in the seven years since I began online writing. It's the Top 20 TV Shows of the Decade... one by one, throughout the month of December! (And yes, I'm actually planning to do 20 of these.) We kick things off with my 20th-best show of the decade, the oft-overlooked Person of Interest.
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Post by otherscott on Dec 2, 2019 9:19:21 GMT -8
Okay, I also had this plan.
I was going to start it a little later because there are a couple shows I wanted to get done, including this number 20 one, but since Jeremy has started, I think I'll just go now. Unlike Jeremy, I will be including miniseries, but with the note that it is tougher for a miniseries to break into the really high rankings for me since character development is probably the number 1 most important thing in a TV show to me, and miniseries tend to be short on it.
Number 20: Better Things (FX)
This ranking is only for Seasons 1 and 2 of the show, as I haven't quite gotten to Season 3 yet, and was going to start it this week. But really, the show doesn't need Season 3 to be considered to end up in this list.
Pamela Adlon has constructed a show that feels like one of the most real shows that anyone has written this decade, yet still manages to be funny, entertaining and emotional at times. Sam's kids seem horrible, but in a way that kids treat their parents that often is horrible. Sam herself is often mean, she's often rude, and often she just plain does wrong and stupid things. But throughout it all you can see that she's always making that effort. She's constantly trying to be the best mother she can, and the best friend she can, and when she's in a relationship, she gives effort to commit to the guys she finds. Sometimes effort isn't enough, but you can't help but have a massive amount of respect and emotional connection to this character that the show creates.
The episodes are creative and focused and at best are masterpieces of half hour television. Some episodes and characters are misses (the less focus on Sam's mother Phil, the better) and it doesn't really have the consistency of most of the shows in the list. But the show takes its swings, and when they hit it's a perfect reflection on life.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 2, 2019 10:29:50 GMT -8
Scott, please be advised that I know lawyers. Lots of them.
But in the meantime, it should be interesting to see how our picks align. I'm thinking there's at least one show that will rank highly on your list that won't be on mine at all.
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Post by otherscott on Dec 2, 2019 11:03:56 GMT -8
I think there are 2 or 3 shows in my top 10 that won't be on your list at all. My second 10 is going to be a mishmash of a lot of stuff with some more adventurous picks, some of which I don't think you've seen.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 2, 2019 11:23:07 GMT -8
Oh yeah, and I've definitely got a few on my list you haven't seen. But there is at least one show which I've seen every episode of that's guaranteed to be in your Top 10, and won't make my Top 20 at all. (Maybe Top 30, if I'd been ambitious enough to make one...)
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Post by ThirdMan on Dec 2, 2019 17:15:00 GMT -8
Scott, I haven't seen much of Season 1 of Better Things, but I know that the show received more acclaim as it progressed. Which is all to say, once you've seen Season 3, I suspect it'll rank higher for you.
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