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Post by otherscott on Dec 6, 2019 10:34:37 GMT -8
On an unrelated note, this is hilarious: "Cahiers du Cinéma, the legendary French film magazine and one of the most prestigious movie publications in the world, has selected David Lynch’s “Twin Peaks: The Return” as the best film of the decade. The selection is a controversial one as there has been constant debate since over whether or not the program is a film or a television series. Critics have been arguing over which medium “Twin Peaks: The Return” belongs to since its debut in 2017. IndieWire’s television team placed “The Return” at #32 on its list of the best television shows of the decade." www.indiewire.com/2019/12/twin-peaks-the-return-cahiers-du-cinema-best-film-decade-1202194901/What kind of debate can be had that classifies Twin Peaks: The Return as not a television show? It aired on a television, in multiple parts, over the course of multiple weeks. What part of the show could possibly disqualify it from being a show? I have a little more patience for the argument that is both a television show and a movie, but only a little more patience. That opens up a whole can of worms that makes a lot more shows that should be acknowledged as movies as well. Breaking Bad is a 66 hour (or however long it is) movie as well! It's pretty clear what brings this on is that movie critics want to acknowledge how great Twin Peaks: The Return is. Great! Write an article or essay or something! Don't falsely classify it just so you can say it's in your purview.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 6, 2019 12:43:32 GMT -8
I recall a few critics calling TP:TR a film when it first premiered. The elitist view is that TV shows by their very nature cannot be high art, and so any show that deigns to be as innovative and artful as cinema must actually be cinema. And yes, I know you may take issue with that, but the people who decide these things are called "Cahiers du Cinéma," which sounds a heck of a lot fancier than whatever you can come up with. I did not make any efforts to really distribute this top 20 list evenly, so that is why you are seeing mostly new shows early in the list. That's going to continue for a little while longer and then they'll mostly go away. Good thing you threw in this disclaimer, because I was ready to snark about how the decade began before 2017. One Day at a Time was another one of the finalists that almost made my list. I liked way more than 20 shows this decade, but sacrifices must be made.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Dec 7, 2019 12:06:13 GMT -8
Can we invent a term for genre distinctions where the dividing line is "is this work good or bad" ? Like how people call Deftones "alternative metal" so they don't have to admit they share a genre with Limp Bizkit? And then, once we come up with that term, can we get rid of genre distinctions where the dividing line is "is this work good or bad" ?
Also, on the subject of nu-ODAAT, I'm curious whether Gina Rodriguez getting cancelled is going to influence Jane the Virgin's position on these end-of-decade lists.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 8, 2019 20:11:29 GMT -8
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Post by otherscott on Dec 9, 2019 7:04:03 GMT -8
In the same way Jeremy used his number 15 spot to celebrate an under-recognized show, I'm going to use that spot similarly. Not to celebrate an under-recognized show, but to celebrate what I think is a vastly under-recognized season of television.
Number 15: American Crime Story (FX)
"Oh look, another one season wonder that just happened to make the list." Sorry, but Season 1 itself of American Crime Story is not the reason this show made the list of the decade. Which isn't to say that season 1 isn't terrific, because it's a great look at the OJ case. But Season 1 is big and brash and pretty much constructed to be a television event.
Season 2 is why this show makes the list. It didn't get much critical acclaim, and was thought to be too focused on the mental state of a serial killer. But after the showiness and crowd pleasing nature of Season 1, the show did a complete 180 and went small and artsy and weird, and mostly appealed to the gay male community - which is not the biggest of audiences. But Season 2 is terrific. It's experimental, and explores the tragedy that still exists for the gay male, the idea of the need for companionship that leads you into increasingly unsafe scenarios and makes you ignore major warning signs in the people you do find. And I think it's so creative in the way that it tells the stories, one by one, of the men who were killed by Andrew Cunanen, using the Gianni Versace element of the case as both a trojan horse and a thematic parallel.
The show can go big and do it well, and the show can go small and artsy and also be brilliant. Any show, even one that is an anthology series, that can show that type of flexibility and bring these types of stories together, deserves to be admired as one of the top pieces of the decade.
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Post by otherscott on Dec 9, 2019 7:08:18 GMT -8
Also, on the subject of nu-ODAAT, I'm curious whether Gina Rodriguez getting cancelled is going to influence Jane the Virgin's position on these end-of-decade lists. I think this isn't quite a Louie scenario where it will effect how people feel about Jane the Virgin too strongly. Partly because Gina Rodriguez is not the sole voice of Jane the Virgin, though she is without doubt the face of that show, and partly because what Gina Rodriguez got cancelled for is nowhere near the same level of violation that Louis C.K. was found to have done. That being said, Jane the Virgin is going to miss my list - and the main reason behind that is the show just doesn't stick with me very well and as a result I fall way behind on it. I enjoy it a lot while I'm watching it, but still it's more fun, emotional entertainment than it is great TV for my particular sensibilities. It has a much better chance to be on Jeremy's list I feel.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 9, 2019 17:30:24 GMT -8
Unfortunately, I fell behind on Jane the Virgin a while ago, and despite my repeated attempts to catch up, still haven't seen much of the last two seasons. i'm going to give it some sort of shout-out, though. (But I don't believe the attempted Rodriguez cancellation will stick.)
I never saw Season 2 of American Crime Story, but I respect the show's decision to downscale its storytelling in its second season (when many shows do the opposite). I don't have high hopes for the upcoming Impeachment season, though I fear I may still take the time to watch it.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 9, 2019 19:46:58 GMT -8
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Post by otherscott on Dec 10, 2019 7:18:33 GMT -8
Number 14: Master of None (Netflix)
There's a lot of single voice half hour dramedies that made it onto the air in 2019, put forward by comedians, and in general it's a very successful model. I don't have the patron saint of those shows on this list, Louie, (though now he's a disgraced patron saint) for the simple reason that I never saw Louie. I have my opinions on the fact that he's been left off of so many of these decade lists, because I think in some ways the fact that he had his gross and inappropriate inclinations probably makes his show more interesting and relevant, rather than tainting it. However, I haven't seen it so I can't do anything about that.
I can do something about Aziz Ansari's show in the same mold, however. Aziz Ansari was either cancelled or not, depending on who you ask, and his show also tends to be a little on the low side of the best of the decade lists. And to me it's a bit of a shame, because we just don't have enough Indian American voices on television, relaying their experiences in a sweet and funny way. The show is maybe the best show on television about the frustrations of dating in this decade for single guys, in addition to that. And of course, the way the show operates as a series of vignettes about different topics works particularly well, because it does give that fresh perspective on things that to the majority of Americans they only think the one way about.
Master of None makes the list because it hits the essence of what TV does best, it presents fresh perspectives on things. It opens your mind to the way other people view topics. It's not as weird or artistic as a show in a similar vein that comes a bit later in this list, but it doesn't have to be. It's a straightforward take on one person's experiences of America, which has incredible value.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 10, 2019 20:32:14 GMT -8
I also love Master of None, though I think I view it from a different perspective than you. But we'll get to that later. Meantime, my #13 show also references the Louis CK thing! Also, having watched several episodes of Louie, I will concede that it is an inventively-structured show that I nonetheless did not find the least bit charming or funny, and my opinion of the show was unchanged either way by the subsequent allegations against him. ( Horace and Pete is still cool, though.)
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Post by otherscott on Dec 11, 2019 7:28:21 GMT -8
This is both my last one season show on the list and my last show that premiered after 2016! I don't think I'm too unreasonably recency biased.
Number 13: My Brilliant Friend (HBO/RAI/TIMVision)
HBO is not super present on my best of the decade list. For a network that is supposed to be the pinnacle of television, I really didn't relate to most of its shows throughout the last decade. That changed last fall, when My Brilliant Friend aired and started an HBO hot streak that has it dominating my best of 2019 list when it eventually comes out.
As I mentioned in my piece on American Crime Story, there's something that really strikes me about small shows done really well. And My Brilliant Friend is an example of that, even though it is based on a best-selling famous book, the show itself is set mostly in one small part of one city in Italy. It is about the childhood and coming of age of two young girls, and it carries all the wonder and feelings of childhood in that setting. But most of all, the show gets to the heart of what is right in the title - friendship. It doesn't take an idealized view of friendship that we sometimes see in sitcoms, where friends will argue about stupid stuff and then hug it out in the end. There are lingering issues with all friendships, things that go unsaid and the jealousies that come with it.
This is a fascinating show, and a fascinating look at people. It's an evaluation of the human psyche that's set in a different atmosphere and setting than you normally see, and that's always a big plus for me.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 11, 2019 19:41:33 GMT -8
This is both my last one season show on the list and my last show that premiered after 2016! I don't think I'm too unreasonably recency biased.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 11, 2019 19:43:38 GMT -8
I wrote the piece on my #12 show during a slow day at work. It may feel a little disjointed, but (1) I've written about this show in the past (particularly my favorite episode), and (2) you try churning out twenty of these inside a month. Um. Anyway.
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Post by otherscott on Dec 12, 2019 11:01:48 GMT -8
Number 12: Review (Comedy Central)
This little show was a brilliantly funny comedy about a man who sacrifices everything in his life to commit to reviewing every experience he was asked to do. It sounds a little bit shallow on the surface, but the way it was executed was perfect. It was the top cringe comedy of the decade, just because of how committed the show was. It was committed to Forrest MacNeil's commitment, and it was amazing watching the ways he would ruin everything just for the stupid little show.
The show also was capable of hilarious vignettes involving each of the items that Forrest tried. Often the things that seemed the most mundane would end the most disastrously. It's the kind of show that probably only exists in the peak TV era, but for those who were on its wavelength it was one of the best shows that existed in it.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 12, 2019 20:45:17 GMT -8
A show that premiered in the first half of the decade? Congrats, Scott! Anyway, here's my own bit of recency bias with the #11 pick.
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