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Post by guttersnipe on Jun 10, 2020 12:46:42 GMT -8
That's how I feel about "British telly" - same twelve actors in everything. There's actually a new comedy programme premiering tonight on the Beeb, a kind of lockdown satire starring Michael Sheen and David Tennant... who were both the stars of Good Omens less than a year ago. It probably becomes easier to see how the troupes are formed when you consider that we only really have a handful of channels, so writers and actors are largely contracted to those and rarely move around. There was a bit of a hoo-ha a few years ago when Bake Off switched channels and only one of the presenters went with it - the public quickly treated him as persona non grata.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Jun 11, 2020 19:24:43 GMT -8
Ah, I was wondering when you'd finally get around to Veronica Mars. The technology and cultural references are pretty dated, but that sometimes feels like part of the charm. (The new season is probably going to feel just as old-fashioned a decade down the line.) Oh jeez, I could not contain my laughter in this episode when Keith Mars had to explain to Anthony Anderson what a webcam is! "She can see you through that little pinhole on the top of the computer." I think my main problem with the show so far is that they're really, really trying to get me to care about Logan and Duncan, but I still struggle to tell the two apart. And in the former's case, the attempts to get me to care are so, so, so manipulative and soapy - his dad belts him! his mom is a pill popper! woe be him! - but he is such an unrepentant bigoted jerk. Also, this is more of a hypothetical problem, but it's kind of bothering me that we learn Veronica got raped in the pilot, and this... hasn't really come up again? Not even subtextually? It's just such an astonishingly dark place to go on a teen show and then not do anything with.
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Post by Jeremy on Jun 11, 2020 19:49:27 GMT -8
Logan is a more interesting character than Duncan by virtue of actually having a personality (obnoxious though it may sometimes be). Duncan is just a block of cider wood.
You're right about the way the show handles Veronica's rape; that it's ignored for so long after it's first brought up really jarred me on first viewing. It does come up again eventually - and in a very impactful way - but it felt like the sort of thing that deserved some subtextual commentary in the interim.
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Post by Jeremy on Jun 12, 2020 14:58:47 GMT -8
The Great is an impressive miniseries - a dark and hilarious retelling of the rise of Catherine the Great, with great production design and an excellent cast.
The show has a lot in common with The Favourite (including its creator/screenwriter), a film I didn't really care for one way or the other. But The Great benefits by expanding its story and characters across ten hourlong episodes, commenting on the state of 18th-century Russian royalty with a variety of amusing premises (thankfully, each episode feels like is own story; while it goes on a bit long, it avoids the worst issues of streaming bloat). And it offsets its many unpleasant scenes with a freewheeling sense of humor that even extends to its soundtrack. (Modern song choices populate the end credits.)
Elle Fanning is phenomenal as Catherine, the young woman caught between a country who needs her and a husband who thinks nothing of her. And Nicholas Hoult (still hard not to think of him as Beast from the X-Men films) is quite good as Peter, the Russian emperor you hate to love to hate. (I also have to keep reminding myself the series takes place in Russia, given the fact that most of the characters have British accents. Those interested in historical accuracy should look elsewhere.)
The main downside to this show is that the word "Huzzah" is uttered far, far too many times, and after a while I wanted to reward anyone saying it with a punch in the mouth. Other than that, definitely worth the watch.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Jun 12, 2020 19:48:59 GMT -8
Meanwhile, I'm excited for the third and final episode of Quiz this weekend. The show is very compelling in spite of how quiet and not-explicitly-topical it is.
Oh, and Search Party is coming back?? Cool. I actually really loved the second season just as much as the first. I kind of wonder whether it'll swerve into drama - Dory's story has always been an antihero drama of the Walter White variety, cleverly disguised as a millennial-satire-slash-conspiracy-thriller.
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Post by Jay on Jun 13, 2020 11:47:06 GMT -8
It probably becomes easier to see how the troupes are formed when you consider that we only really have a handful of channels, so writers and actors are largely contracted to those and rarely move around. There was a bit of a hoo-ha a few years ago when Bake Off switched channels and only one of the presenters went with it - the public quickly treated him as persona non grata. They've even made light of the cliques at one time or another. I remember the quiz show episode of The Young Ones being a prominent example. You might have closer insights but I seem to remember another kerfuffle in Bake Off being that the original comedians were not asked back and thus Mary Berry stuck with them while Paul Hollywood went onward.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Jun 13, 2020 12:45:12 GMT -8
It probably becomes easier to see how the troupes are formed when you consider that we only really have a handful of channels, so writers and actors are largely contracted to those and rarely move around. There was a bit of a hoo-ha a few years ago when Bake Off switched channels and only one of the presenters went with it - the public quickly treated him as persona non grata. They've even made light of the cliques at one time or another. I remember the quiz show episode of The Young Ones being a prominent example. You might have closer insights but I seem to remember another kerfuffle in Bake Off being that the original comedians were not asked back and thus Mary Berry stuck with them while Paul Hollywood went onward.
I read that the original two comedians decided to leave of their own volition, since the show was becoming too focused on drama and competition rather than the wholesome cooking show it started as. Which is a shame.
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Post by guttersnipe on Jun 13, 2020 15:56:37 GMT -8
They've even made light of the cliques at one time or another. I remember the quiz show episode of The Young Ones being a prominent example. You might have closer insights but I seem to remember another kerfuffle in Bake Off being that the original comedians were not asked back and thus Mary Berry stuck with them while Paul Hollywood went onward. That's true. Also, when a few tensions started to manifest in the Pythons, they started to draw up loyalties based on the old Oxford-Cambridge rivalry. I'm not 100% sure on the GBBO saga (I don't watch reality shows myself, and only really cooking programmes when it's simultaneously about travel*), but the statement at the time was that Mel and Sue wanted to (or were expected to) maintain loyalty with the BBC, so a running gag formed about how Paul's surname foreshadowed his behaviour. * I have just been following Hollywood's three-part foodie series because he's been in Japan.
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Post by Jeremy on Jun 16, 2020 19:26:50 GMT -8
NBC, like CBS, plans to begin its TV season in the fall, with all the major shows returning in September. Am I skeptical it can keep to this commitment, even as Hollywood inches closer to reopening? You bet I am.
Also, re. that Kenan Thompson conversation we had last month - NBC announced that his upcoming sitcom, The Kenan Show is set to premiere in early 2021. Given that he's contracted for the new season of SNL, how is this going to work? Assuming schedules are back to normal by year's end, can he balance work on an eponymous TV series and a weekly variety series? Most SNL stars seem to move on when they spin off into their own work.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Jun 16, 2020 20:21:16 GMT -8
Ah, I was wondering when you'd finally get around to Veronica Mars. The technology and cultural references are pretty dated, but that sometimes feels like part of the charm. (The new season is probably going to feel just as old-fashioned a decade down the line.) Oh jeez, I could not contain my laughter in this episode when Keith Mars had to explain to Anthony Anderson what a webcam is! "She can see you through that little pinhole on the top of the computer." I think my main problem with the show so far is that they're really, really trying to get me to care about Logan and Duncan, but I still struggle to tell the two apart. And in the former's case, the attempts to get me to care are so, so, so manipulative and soapy - his dad belts him! his mom is a pill popper! woe be him! - but he is such an unrepentant bigoted jerk. Also, this is more of a hypothetical problem, but it's kind of bothering me that we learn Veronica got raped in the pilot, and this... hasn't really come up again? Not even subtextually? It's just such an astonishingly dark place to go on a teen show and then not do anything with. Okay, so I've finished up the first season of Veronica Mars. "Leave it to Beaver" is as good as everyone said it was. Fantastic whodunnit; Kristen Bell and Enrico Colantoni are fantastic; everything fell into place both on the emotional beats and plotwise. I don't want to keep watching. Because - well, let's compare it to Buffy's objectively pretty terrible first season. Both shows have good casts and witty dialogue. VM probably outdoes Buffy in terms of the mystery arc weaving in and out of the cases of the week. But Buffy, even at its worst moments, had this fascinating dynamic going on, where it was a teen drama and a B-movie at the same time. Veronica Mars... basically just feels like a 2000s teen drama. And who the hell wants to watch a 2000s teen drama? Ironically, it's VM's competence that dooms it for me. What also doesn't help is that I'm not sure I actually... care about any of the characters? I still really, really struggled to tell the generically hunky California Anglos apart from one another even in the final episode. (Worse - in season two, I'm supposed to figure out who Dick and Beaver are!?!? Oh and Tessa Thompson is there, apparently. Unless she's "there" in the way Sidney Poitier's daughter was "there.") This is in sharp contrast to Buffy, or even Angel, where I found myself really loving the supporting players. There's no Oz or Jenny, not even a Willie the Snitch. Boo.
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Post by ThirdMan on Jun 17, 2020 0:01:09 GMT -8
Veronica Mars isn't just a teen drama: it's also a neo(n)-noir detective series. And I'd say Mac and Wallace line up pretty well as Willow and Xander surrogates, and the Veronica/Keith dynamic at the core of the show often feels very much like Buffy and Giles (with their witty playfulness, but deep bond). I mean, if you don't respond to the actors playing the roles, fair enough, but I still think there's pretty strong character work done on the show. It DOES get bogged down in convoluted plots far more than BtVS, particularly in Season 2, though.
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Post by Jeremy on Jun 17, 2020 10:33:46 GMT -8
Yeah, Veronica Mars is teen drama at the surface, but its tone and characterizations are more noir than other high school dramas. It was that mix that helped the show click with me so well when I first watched it.
Due to their similarities, the show is probably always destined to live in Buffy's shadow, but I'd confidently place the first season of VM alongside any season of Buffy in terms of quality - the blend of seasonal arc, standalone mysteries, and character development/humor is top-notch.
As for the later seasons - they're certainly not without flaws, but Season Two does take some characters in interesting directions and features some deeper commentary on the class divide in Neptune. That said, I really can't recommend Season Three or the recent Season Four, which mostly serve to showcase the issues of network meddling and streaming bloat, respectively.
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Post by ThirdMan on Jun 18, 2020 15:42:59 GMT -8
I can't speak to Season 4 (haven't watched it), but as I've said before, I think I preferred Season 3 to Season 2. Part of that may just be me preferring the college setting to the high school one, but I also think ~eight-episode arcs are more palatable than full-season ones, particularly given how convoluted VM's mystery plots can get. Also, I recall finding the reveal in the finale of Season 2 to be hamfisted, and unintentionally hilarious, which is not great, given how much time was invested in it.
At any rate, I'm just basing this on distant memory, and hardly remember enough details to actually debate anything. I just recall preferring Season 3 to S2, is all. I'm also in no way encouraging Quiara to continue on with the show if the actors/characters aren't doing it for her. TV seasons, particularly on network TV, are time-consuming to watch, and it's better to devote one's time to that which gives you consistent pleasure. She's already watched what's generally considered to be the best of Veronica Mars, anyways.
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Post by Jeremy on Jun 18, 2020 18:53:03 GMT -8
If you do watch Season Four, it may make you rethink the idea of eight-episode arcs being palatable. I'm not recommending Quiara continue VM either; Season One is certainly the show's best, and if the characters aren't clicking with her, they probably won't in the later seasons, either. I only brought up the social commentary aspect because I think it's the one area where S2 outdoes S1.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Jun 26, 2020 9:13:27 GMT -8
Slings & Arrows: Canadian comedy from the oughties I think the only Canadian series I've watched are Due South and Twitch City, and amusingly both Paul Gross and Don McKellar are in this. For a massive country, the arts scene seems pretty localised. Ha! I'm watching Due South now as a comfort food sort of thing. Paul Gross? More like Paul Gorgeous. (The show itself is pretty fun too - weirdly, despite the salt-and-pepper buddy cop comedy it's trying to be, it makes me think more Northern Exposure + Sherlock? But less annoying than either.)
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