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Post by ThirdMan on Jun 1, 2022 19:50:40 GMT -8
It's fine to poke fun at insincere or warped expressions of empathy or concern from white people for minorities. I mean, the people in a number of those scenes (especially the party scene) are pretty caricatured, but it serves a narrative function that has some truth to it, so whatever. It's fine. That said, I have a feeling that if they were poking fun at white conservatives, you'd be criticizing them for "telling viewers what they already know" or taking on "low-hanging fruit" or "easy targets", and wouldn't find it the least bit fun.
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Post by Jeremy on Jun 2, 2022 13:18:32 GMT -8
I think that, when it comes to topical humor, my reaction can be based on where the humor is coming from as much as what the actual joke is. It's true that I don't usually find it funny when progressive comedies poke fun at conservatives, but I also roll my eyes at the cheap liberal-bashing jokes on conservative sitcoms like Last Man Standing. In today's day and age, a lot of partisan humor tends to be pretty shallow - and in some cases misplaced or misinformed - so the comedy tends to fall flat. I've found that it's usually a little more interesting when TV shows goof on their own side (e.g. Search Party) since that sort of comedy usually comes with an extra layer of self-awareness and tongue-in-cheekiness. (This is also why I tend to find recent SNL seasons a bit funnier when they lampoon the Democrats. Although the new actor they have playing Trump has been utterly hilarious.)
Oh, and I wasn't trying to sound insulting of white liberals earlier. Some of my best friends are white liberals! Just giving my perspective on Atlanta in a mildly snarky fashion.
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Post by ThirdMan on Jun 2, 2022 15:40:03 GMT -8
In today's day and age, a lot of partisan humor tends to be pretty shallow - and in some cases misplaced or misinformed - so the comedy tends to fall flat. I've found that it's usually a little more interesting when TV shows goof on their own side (e.g. Search Party) since that sort of comedy usually comes with an extra layer of self-awareness and tongue-in-cheekiness. (This is also why I tend to find recent SNL seasons a bit funnier when they lampoon the Democrats. Although the new actor they have playing Trump has been utterly hilarious.) ...Some of my best friends are white liberals! I will say that any time I catch a bit of Colbert these days (which isn't often, as I don't watch late night talk shows much), it strikes me that he's almost stopped writing jokes altogether. Virtually every "joke" in his monologues directed at conservatives is basically a straight-ahead insult. I don't usually object to the general point(s) being made, but sure wish he'd couch them in a turn-of-phrase that's actually, you know, kind of clever or funny. Not that he, and other prominent talk-show hosts like Jimmy Kimmel, don't have a reason to be angry and upset, given some of the horrible stuff that has happened in the past few weeks, and all the political deflection going on. Anyways, I agree that it's usually more interesting when TV shows or movies goof on their own side, for the reasons you stated. I mean, I haven't really encountered too many conservative-leaning films or TV shows that lampoon their side of the aisle, but I don't really seek out such shows to begin with, and they're probably in much shorter supply, given the left-leaning entertainment industry. Re: SNL, though, I'm not so sure, as 90% of their "jokes" about Biden are that his approval numbers aren't great, and he's very, very old (and supposedly forgetful). Not exactly rich comic material, but then again, Biden's kind of a bland personality to riff on. The new guy playing Trump is great, though: it's a near-perfect caricature, unlike the one delivered by Alec Baldwin. Baldwin, of course, felt Trump "didn't deserve" a good impression, and thus phoned it in. Still, the new guy is spot-on with his impression. Re: the last line of yours I singled out above, even though I'm sure it's true, I hope the very-specific wording is deliberately tongue-in-cheek.
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Post by Jeremy on Jun 2, 2022 17:32:52 GMT -8
Yes, there may have been some tongue-in-cheeking there. Perhaps I should get into more of a habit of using emojis. Colbert has really come to rely on political digs as a substitute for comedy (with the audience swapping out laughter for clapter), perhaps moreso than any other late-night comedian. A bummer, as he could be pretty hilarious back in his Comedy Central days. SNL has a similar problem with some of their political comedy, which is often very surface-level, regardless of which political party they're mocking, so a lot of it depends on the level of commitment. Johnson's Trump impression is a good example; it's both funnier and more nuanced than Baldwin's - i.e. the jokes go beyond the basic "lol he's dumb" variety - but the cherry on top comes from just how fully he immerses himself in the role. (I showed one of his monologues to my mom, and I don't think she's laughed that hard at an SNL sketch since the '80s.) The best example of a self-mocking conservative comedy I can think of is probably King of the Hill, which managed to mine its maim characters' politics for drama and comedy in equal measure. Not a lot of other prominent sitcoms that I can think of which fit the description (unless you count the take-no-prisoners philosophy of South Park).
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Jun 2, 2022 20:02:24 GMT -8
Some of my best friends are white liberals! Lol.
No but seriously, not exactly The Sopranos, was it? I thought it was a very mixed season, both the anthology and the ones that continued the lives of Earn and co. So we've had one good season of Atlanta, one great season, and one 'meh' season. Should be interesting to see how Season 4 stacks up.
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Post by Jeremy on Jun 3, 2022 13:01:33 GMT -8
I'm wondering if S4 actually will air later this year, or if they'll push it off to next year to give the show (and the network) a bit more breathing room. It would make more economic sense for S4 to air in 2023, especially since - after such a long break after S2 - FX wouldn't want to just write it off so quickly.
Speaking of shows that are at risk of getting written off too quickly*, Season 2 of Hacks just wrapped. A bit shorter than S1 (8 episodes instead of 10) but just as many laughs, particularly whenever Jean Smart and Hannah Einbinder are onscreen together. The season has to contrive a few ways to keep them at odds with each other, and struggles when it comes to supporting characters like Marcus (he has his own running story in the first half of the season and then is abruptly folded into the main plotline), but the writing is sharp and the cast stellar, with Laurie Metcalf a standout in the supporting cast. Unclear if there will be another season - this show is more "inside baseball" than the average HBO program, which may explain why it's a hit with critics and Emmy voters but not regular viewers - but fingers crossed.
*Yes, I agree that was an A+ transition, you're welcome.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Jun 3, 2022 22:12:03 GMT -8
I'm wondering if S4 actually will air later this year, or if they'll push it off to next year to give the show (and the network) a bit more breathing room. It would make more economic sense for S4 to air in 2023, especially since - after such a long break after S2 - FX wouldn't want to just write it off so quickly. Speaking of shows that are at risk of getting written off too quickly*, Season 2 of Hacks just wrapped. A bit shorter than S1 (8 episodes instead of 10) but just as many laughs, particularly whenever Jean Smart and Hannah Einbinder are onscreen together. The season has to contrive a few ways to keep them at odds with each other, and struggles when it comes to supporting characters like Marcus (he has his own running story in the first half of the season and then is abruptly folded into the main plotline), but the writing is sharp and the cast stellar, with Laurie Metcalf a standout in the supporting cast. Unclear if there will be another season - this show is more "inside baseball" than the average HBO program, which may explain why it's a hit with critics and Emmy voters but not regular viewers - but fingers crossed. *Yes, I agree that was an A+ transition, you're welcome. I was somewhat surprised to realize this would be the season finale - was sure this would have a 10-episode run again! - and as a result this season feels a bit shorter and a bit more rushed, and perhaps a bit less satisfying than the first. Thankfully the show is still really funny: the whole "it might not even go to series!" bit in the second(?) episode was just hysterical, for instance. ( Dooooooooong. If you know, you know.) But, IMO, it is criminal that Marcus doesn't really have an arc this season and stupid Kayla of all characters does.
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Post by ThirdMan on Jun 4, 2022 3:14:19 GMT -8
It looks like they're offering a free month of Crave TV in Canada again, so I suppose I'll get that, and watch Peacemaker, Barry S3, Hacks S1 & 2, and the final season of Search Party. Eventually I'll order Amazon Prime again, to watch The Boys S1-3 and the second season of Undone.
I've just got to finish up with the first seven episodes of Stranger Things - Season 4 (for the love of Satan, get David Harbour's character out of Russia) on Netflix. Think I'm on Episode 6. They apparently spent $30 million-per-episode on this season. Even more than HBO spent on the final season of Game Of Thrones ($15 million-per-episode) or Disney spent on the Marvel shows ($20 million-per-episode). Anyways, it's OK, but not exceptional, as per usual. Cast is generally likable, but it's an awfully conventional sci-fi/horror-drama, even beyond its 80s pastiche nature.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Jun 5, 2022 9:23:27 GMT -8
It looks like they're offering a free month of Crave TV in Canada again, so I suppose I'll get that, and watch Peacemaker, Barry S3, Hacks S1 & 2, and the final season of Search Party. Eventually I'll order Amazon Prime again, to watch The Boys S1-3 and the second season of Undone. I've just got to finish up with the first seven episodes of Stranger Things - Season 4 (for the love of Satan, get David Harbour's character out of Russia) on Netflix. Think I'm on Episode 6. They apparently spent $30 million-per-episode on this season. Even more than HBO spent on the final season of Game Of Thrones ($15 million-per-episode) or Disney spent on the Marvel shows ($20 million-per-episode). Anyways, it's OK, but not exceptional, as per usual. Cast is generally likable, but it's an awfully conventional sci-fi/horror-drama, even beyond its 80s pastiche nature. No kidding. I watched episode 1 yesterday out of curiosity--some of the most painfully cliche school stuff that I've ever seen. More than anything, it just made me want to re-watch Freaks and Geeks. Or Buffy, or Friday Night Lights. Any great high school show, really. And the run times--good heavens. The finale which drops later this summer is apparently 2 and a half hours long. Lol.
I haven't seen Hacks yet either, but it sounds like it's up my alley. I'd say Undone is one of the best shows of the year so far, definitely worth a watch.
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Post by Jay on Jun 20, 2022 20:18:24 GMT -8
This evening, I wrapped Peaky Blinders. I'm not sure to what extent it will be in conversation for "peak TV," as that's been harder to assess with the fragmentation of streaming services. What I can say is that it was informed by peak TV, Breaking Bad and what I understand of Mad Men especially. I would walk away from it saying that it is in its totality, not quite an A. It's good to excellent in acting, cinematography, dialogue, and scoring, and I appreciate some of its reflections on contemporary politics, but often relies to heavily on what the audience does not and cannot know, a trait I find more tolerable in drama series than I do in mysteries, its plots are better within season than globally, and it mirrors the other two in its preoccupation with following the "great man" of the series to the detriment of all the characters that don't fit that bill. That being said, I did enjoy its attempts at tertiary characters within the larger family, such as Charlie, Curly, and Johnny Dogs, it's just at the secondary level that it falls apart.
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Post by ThirdMan on Jun 25, 2022 2:07:03 GMT -8
I've watched three of my intended four series on CraveTV (Canadian HBO Max equivalent) so far. Some thoughts:
Barry S3 - Very solid stuff, though I wish Barry's girlfriend had more dimension: she always feels like a bit of a caricature to me, that the audience is only meant to laugh at, despite having some (seemingly) sincere emotional concerns. Anyways, that motorcycle chase late in the season was wild and very funny, the use of sound in suspenseful situations (like Noho Hank with the panther on the other side of the wall) was great, and it'll be interesting to see how the writers work their way out of the finale's final plot developments. It's honestly more of a psychological drama than comedy these days, though, which makes Hader potentially winning another Emmy for Best Actor In A Comedy (which Jeremy apparently wants) feel like a bit of a cheat, as awards voters generally tend to rate dramatic performances higher than comedic ones.
Peacemaker - I like the cast (Vigilante is, in particular, a standout character), and the show is good, cheeky (if a bit overly self-conscious in its profanity) fun. After watching the most recent (high-budget) season of Stranger Things (which I'm NOT saying is better, to be clear), though, this, outside of perhaps the final stretch of the finale, felt very much like low-to-mid budget TV. Which isn't a criticism, so much as an acknowledgment that most new TV programs have to work with budgetary restrictions, at least at the outset. It also felt like there was a bit more choppy editing and shaky-cam during the fight sequences (especially in the finale) than in Gunn's The Suicide Squad, which is again probably down to working around budgetary restrictions, and trying to make things "pop" in a different (however misguided) way. Anyways, I generally enjoyed the show, but could only get so attached to a series with generic alien bugs as primary antagonists (you know, beyond Peacemaker's white-supremacist father). I expect the second season, assuming there is one, to be better and more interesting.
Search Party S5 - When the primary character of a show is a self-righteous zealot (with very little self awareness) for most of a season, it's pretty difficult to get that emotionally invested. And the whole season was rife with caricatures (especially the popular social-media influencers they assembled). I will say, however, that I feel pretty dumb for not realizing well ahead of time that the series was headed towards a zombie apocalypse, as those drawings Dory made in the asylum were pretty heavy-handed and obvious in retrospect. Also, that creepy-kid-with-the-gay-couple subplot seemed like it was on a island, and didn't go anywhere thematically-significant, only generating a few cheap laughs. So what do we think of the final shots? Has Dory moved on from "helping" people (she walked away after looking at the Missing signs), and if so, is that actually a good thing, given how often her well-intentioned plans go awry?
Watching both seasons of Hacks next...
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Post by Jeremy on Jun 25, 2022 20:00:20 GMT -8
Barry S3 - Very solid stuff, though I wish Barry's girlfriend had more dimension: she always feels like a bit of a caricature to me, that the audience is only meant to laugh at, despite having some (seemingly) sincere emotional concerns. Anyways, that motorcycle chase late in the season was wild and very funny, the use of sound in suspenseful situations (like Noho Hank with the panther on the other side of the wall) was great, and it'll be interesting to see how the writers work their way out of the finale's final plot developments. It's honestly more of a psychological drama than comedy these days, though, which makes Hader potentially winning another Emmy for Best Actor In A Comedy (which Jeremy apparently wants) feel like a bit of a cheat, as awards voters generally tend to rate dramatic performances higher than comedic ones. The new season of Barry was excellent, perhaps the show's best season yet. I'm impressed by how the series doesn't shy away from the consequences of the main character's actions, either years in the past or in the present. Like the best of antihero dramas (and despite the abundance of dry and dark comedy, the show feels increasingly like a heavy drama), the show sticks its protagonist in a prison of his own making, and not a world of "Starting now" promises can get him out. Sally's story arc was also entertaining - though I could have done without the obvious pandering to TV critics and award ceremonies - and provides a nice contrast with the darker aspects of the show, dovetailing very nicely in the finale. I should note that the Emmys have adjusted their rules this year so that half-hour shows can more easily be submitted as dramas, and hourlong shows as comedies. Though I think the Barry producers would like to keep it in the comedy category, due to the notable comedic actors attached, even if dark comedies tend to fare poorly in the main category. HBO has already greenlit a second season, which I am quite happy about. Had a great time with the series, even if - as you say - it does need to work with budgetary limitations akin to many other superhero TV shows. (The looser tone and emphasis on verbal humor forgives some of these issues.) It's perhaps the best example of DC's new "anything goes" philosophy, wherein they've eschewed the house style popularized by Marvel in favor of just giving talented filmmakers a camera and letting them run wild, consistency and continuity be damned. And of course, the opening titles are phenomenal. I interpreted it the opposite way, actually. Dory's narcissism and inability to see beyond her own perceptions is the driving force behind the show since S1, and there's little indication even by S5 to suggest she's grown in self-awareness. She may walk away, but her mind is probably abuzz with ideas. Of course, I don't think much of S5 is easily interpretable beyond the writers going "hey, isn't this crazy?" as they giggle maniacally in the background.
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Post by ThirdMan on Jun 26, 2022 1:50:04 GMT -8
Oh, the final moments of Search Party are certainly left open to interpretation. Clearly Dory lingering in front of the Missing signs suggests that she still has pangs to narcissistically "help" people, but whether she acts on those or leaves them in the past is open-ended. Anyways, even if the show became more uneven as it went along, I did like how it came full-circle there.
I'm three episodes into Hacks, and quite enjoying it. Most of the core characters are given a reasonable amount of dimension right from the outset.
I also noticed that Drive My Car had been added to CraveTV, so I finally got around to watching that movie, as the DVD wasn't yet available at my library. I liked it well enough, though I could see how some folks would find it too long and dry. I think the interpersonal character dynamics work pretty well, but would concede that it leans too heavily on long-winded, emotionally-expository dialogue at times. That, combined with having the viewer sit through long, not visually dynamic, table-reads of Uncle Vanya, can be a bit much. Still, very well-acted, and worth my time.
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Post by Jeremy on Jun 26, 2022 5:17:10 GMT -8
Drive My Car is really all about those interpersonal dynamics, and the reactions suggest that either you get onboard with them or you don't. I just found the whole film so relentlessly dry and needlessly extended to the point that even the finale (while admittedly moving) felt anticlimactic, hardly worth the three hours it took to get there.
Director Ryusuke Hamaguchi has credited John Cassavetes as his main influence, particularly in the extended scenes of characters conversing about life and human connection. I'm not much familiar with Cassavetes' filmography (tried watching Faces recently and got bored after 15 minutes), but it seems that people who love those films are likely to get a lot out of Drive My Car.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Jun 26, 2022 11:34:47 GMT -8
This evening, I wrapped Peaky Blinders. I'm not sure to what extent it will be in conversation for "peak TV," as that's been harder to assess with the fragmentation of streaming services. What I can say is that it was informed by peak TV, Breaking Bad and what I understand of Mad Men especially. I would walk away from it saying that it is in its totality, not quite an A. It's good to excellent in acting, cinematography, dialogue, and scoring, and I appreciate some of its reflections on contemporary politics, but often relies to heavily on what the audience does not and cannot know, a trait I find more tolerable in drama series than I do in mysteries, its plots are better within season than globally, and it mirrors the other two in its preoccupation with following the "great man" of the series to the detriment of all the characters that don't fit that bill. That being said, I did enjoy its attempts at tertiary characters within the larger family, such as Charlie, Curly, and Johnny Dogs, it's just at the secondary level that it falls apart. It's like the Boardwalk Empire of British tv. It's a B- that should've been an A. Well produced, but ultimately really empty. I think the really great historical shows ( Deadwood, Manhattan, Halt, The Knick, etc.) feel like a lot more than just playing around in an interesting historical setting for the sake of it, which Peaky Blinders definitely does. They use it as a mirror to our own world in some profound ways. And even if you placed Deadwood in a different setting, it would still be a fascinating show about how societies come together. Halt would still be a poignant story about failure and human connection. Whereas with Peaky Blinders and Boardwalk, it feels to me like the setting is all they have.
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