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Post by otherscott on Apr 11, 2023 8:38:11 GMT -8
I'm trying to pull more names out for people that have starred in at least 3 great shows, but I'll put Bob Odenkirk's name forward for BCS, Undone, and Fargo.
The other one I have jotted down is Regina King, for American Crime, The Leftovers and Watchmen, though I suppose American Crime might be pushing it for "great."
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Apr 11, 2023 14:21:44 GMT -8
I'm trying to pull more names out for people that have starred in at least 3 great shows, but I'll put Bob Odenkirk's name forward for BCS, Undone, and Fargo. The other one I have jotted down is Regina King, for American Crime, The Leftovers and Watchmen, though I suppose American Crime might be pushing it for "great." You could think outside the box and argue that The Boondocks' un-cancellation half-counts for Regina King too, and that + American Crime gets her up to 3! It would be facetious, but worth it.
It's actually really distressing realizing that "debuted within the past 10 years" doesn't include, like, most of the shows I think of as prestige TV anymore. Hell, House of Cards turns 10 this year, doesn't it?
(The actual answer to this question is almost certainly Jean Smart, btw, with Watchmen + Mare of Easttown + Hacks. I know that's pushing it in at least one case, but she did all those shows simultaneously, more or less.)
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Post by Jeremy on Apr 11, 2023 14:42:24 GMT -8
I had completely forgotten that Bob Odenkirk was on Fargo, way back in the first season. And yeah, I'd say Regina King counts (even if Watchmen was only a limited series).
On an all-time level, Jesse Plemmons probably has the top "ten-year stretch" of any actor I can think of, starring in Friday Night Lights, Breaking Bad, and the best season of Fargo all within the span of a decade.
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Post by Jeremy on May 29, 2023 13:12:50 GMT -8
I am roughly 80% positive about the series finale of Barry, and to the final season as a whole. Most of what the writers did to close out the story - a story that got progressively darker and bleaker with each season and was never going to have a happy ending - made sense for the characters and the arcs they've cultivated over the last few seasons. The series remains well-shot and staged, and the cast is outstanding throughout.
There are certain elements to this season - particularly the second half, after The Thing happens - that felt a little rushed, almost like the writers needed a couple more episodes (if not one more season) to properly develop and flesh out. Certain character beats happen a little too quickly and without enough explanation, right up to and including the finale.
I have some more specific critiques about the finale, which I'll save for the blackout section below. For the moment, I'll just say that this final season largely affirmed my thoughts about Barry - it's a great show, probably one of HBO's best, and this final season deserved better than to live in the shadow of Succession.
Seasons ranked: 3>1>4>2
SPOILERS FOR THE FINALE BELOW:
I like the intentionally anticlimactic end to Barry's story - there is no believable ending where he survives that doesn't feel like a cop-out, and no "blaze of glory" ending that doesn't seem like a false note in the face of the show's subversive dark comic tone. Cousineau's fate - avenging Janice's death at the expense of his own freedom - was also a powerful moment, and brought the show's most compelling relationship to a haunting close. What didn't really work was the ten-minute epilogue, featuring yet another time jump and centering the show's final emotional beats on Barry's son, a character we barely know. The Mask Collector scenes struck the right note of Hollywood shlock, but the point they were trying to make about rewriting history in the eyes of a kid who needs something to believe in felt kind of forced. Again, would have helped if the initial time-jump stretch got more than four episodes.
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Post by otherscott on May 30, 2023 5:47:31 GMT -8
Interesting season rankings, I haven't gotten to 4 yet but Season 2 is definitely my favourite of the first three Barry seasons.
Anyways, after being very cool on Succession Season 3 (it was closer to the bottom of the list of the shows I watch than the top 10, though admittedly I try to avoid watching bad shows where I can so it's not that much of an indictment), I absolutely loved Season 4. I think making this the final season gave them the chance to break out of some of the cycles in the show that had become really tiresome to me, and make final proclamations on all these characters, their motives, and what's damaged them. It had the depth of season 1 and the introduction to these characters combined with the "fun" shenanigans of Season 2, and being able to pull back on the history of the show in the way final seasons can.
I don't think the show is one of the 10 best of all time or anything, but I found 2 of the 4 seasons to be excellent, which is a similar ratio to a show like The Americans - I think that's my best comp for quality and overall spot on the pantheon.
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Post by ThirdMan on May 30, 2023 13:39:50 GMT -8
I'll probably order Crave TV for a month this summer to watch the final season of Barry, and maybe run through Succession. I'm generally able to avoid spoilers on HBO shows rather easily, and just watch them at my own convenience later on.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on May 30, 2023 15:07:31 GMT -8
Interesting season rankings, I haven't gotten to 4 yet but Season 2 is definitely my favourite of the first three Barry seasons. Anyways, after being very cool on Succession Season 3 (it was closer to the bottom of the list of the shows I watch than the top 10, though admittedly I try to avoid watching bad shows where I can so it's not that much of an indictment), I absolutely loved Season 4. I think making this the final season gave them the chance to break out of some of the cycles in the show that had become really tiresome to me, and make final proclamations on all these characters, their motives, and what's damaged them. It had the depth of season 1 and the introduction to these characters combined with the "fun" shenanigans of Season 2, and being able to pull back on the history of the show in the way final seasons can. I don't think the show is one of the 10 best of all time or anything, but I found 2 of the 4 seasons to be excellent, which is a similar ratio to a show like The Americans - I think that's my best comp for quality and overall spot on the pantheon. I remember you having a similar problem with BoJack--4 of the first 5 seasons climax with a "BoJack hits Rock Bottom" moment, which gets a little repetitive after a while.
Ooh, tell me more about The Pantheon. What's at the top?
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Post by Jeremy on May 30, 2023 17:21:48 GMT -8
Interesting season rankings, I haven't gotten to 4 yet but Season 2 is definitely my favourite of the first three Barry seasons. I'd say all four Barry seasons are pretty close for me in terms of quality, with S3 the slight standout. It did a great job investing me in nearly every main character from start to finish (even if the mob side of the series was usually a cut less interesting as the actor half). Also, based on my posts from 2019, I seem to have slightly preferred S2 over S1. Hard to remember, that was ages ago. Still never could get into Succession, as all the characters annoyed me. I wish HBO had spaced out the timing of the final seasons so as to give Barry more breathing room in the cultural conversation, but it's understandable that they wanted both shows to air as late in the Emmy eligibility period as possible.
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Post by otherscott on May 31, 2023 10:45:20 GMT -8
I remember you having a similar problem with BoJack--4 of the first 5 seasons climax with a "BoJack hits Rock Bottom" moment, which gets a little repetitive after a while. Ooh, tell me more about The Pantheon. What's at the top?
I've never really organized a full top 10, but Mad Men is at the top with numbers 2 through 6 in no particular order is The Sopranos, The Leftovers, The Wire, Breaking Bad and LOST. Next tier would have at least Bojack Horseman and Parks and Rec in it, but I'm sure I'm missing some shows.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Jun 1, 2023 11:26:13 GMT -8
I remember you having a similar problem with BoJack--4 of the first 5 seasons climax with a "BoJack hits Rock Bottom" moment, which gets a little repetitive after a while. Ooh, tell me more about The Pantheon. What's at the top?
I've never really organized a full top 10, but Mad Men is at the top with numbers 2 through 6 in no particular order is The Sopranos, The Leftovers, The Wire, Breaking Bad and LOST. Next tier would have at least Bojack Horseman and Parks and Rec in it, but I'm sure I'm missing some shows. Hmm. I'd have some different things up there. Mad Men wouldn't be in my top 10--too uneven. Deadwood's at the top for me, with The Shield probably being #2. Others in my top tier would include Halt and Catch Fire, Manhattan, The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Cowboy Bebop, Mushi-shi, The Simpsons, Seinfeld, Buffy/Angel (yes, I'm cheating--sue me!), and some other stuff. Give some love to things that aren't prestige cable dramas, people!
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Post by otherscott on Jun 19, 2023 11:19:36 GMT -8
With current TV taking a bit of a step back (though I still really like Star Trek: Strange New Worlds) I'm doing some catchup now, and one thing I didn't get around to at the time last year is The English. I ended up very pleasantly surprised at the depth of the writing and dialogue, and really even the plot and situational drama started to kick it into gear in the last half. This is a really well done Western that is character centric in a way I wish Westerns did a better job of.
I thought the start was a bit slow as you didn't even know what the story really was for the entire first half of its run, but that made the revelation of the villain and especially the ultimate crime and fate of the main character so much sweeter in the 4th episode and finale respectively.
This would have been a top 10 show for me last year and I wish it had gotten a bit more buzz over here in the Americas.
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Post by Jeremy on Jun 21, 2023 18:25:19 GMT -8
I wouldn't say current TV is taking a step back, precisely - although I guess there is a brief cool-off period in the current post-Emmy season.
I've been watching Mrs. Davis, the new sci-fi-adventure-drama-comedy-etc show from Damon Lindelof. The show reinforces a theory I've lately speculated about Lindelof, which is that the fan backlash over Lost and its lack of conclusive answers effectively broke him, and he's spent the years since producing bizarre TV shows that raise questions so outlandish that no serious person could ever expect concrete answers. This was the case with The Leftovers and Watchmen, and it's certainly the case with Mrs. Davis, perhaps his weirdest and most bizarre show yet, in which Betty Gilpin stars as a nun* trying to take down a powerful AI algorithm (relevant!) in an adventure that involves giant swords, mystical sneakers, exploding strawberry jam, and (of course) the Holy Grail.
It's probably Lindelof's most overtly comedic series (he created it with Tara Hernandez, who has a background in sitcoms), and it is certainly quite funny, although it's difficult to truly commit in a story quite this bizarre and off-the-wall. Still, there is a beating heart beneath the craziness, with some abstract commentary on faith and the human condition, and I'm intrigued by the characters enough to remain invested in seeing how it ends.
*No, her character is not named Mrs. Davis, but you will be forgiven for making that mistake for a show that is this insane and nigh-impossible to market.
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Post by otherscott on Jun 23, 2023 10:42:11 GMT -8
Mrs Davis is quite good, both more ambitious than anything Lindelof has done before but also probably the lightest thing Lindelof has ever done.
I personally just like how much ground it covers. If you are into magicians, religious imagery and symbolism, Moby Dick, the medieval period, AI, chicken wings, Cast Away, secret labs, falafel, rodeo, or the dangers of social media fads, this show is FOR YOU.
Ultimately this will probably go down as the least celebrated of Lindelof's works because the wackiness works for it as a piece of entertainment, but against it in terms of depth and meaning. That being said it is still very good and I always appreciate a show going for it and being unlike anything else on television.
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Post by Jeremy on Jun 23, 2023 15:30:44 GMT -8
I finished the series, and yeah, I think the wackiness only works up to a point. Once the show starts really focusing on more profound and in-depth commentary about faith and the world of AI, it falls a little flat, since so much of it is built on bizarre silliness that often feels inauthentic in the moment.
That said, I did laugh out loud a fair amount of times while watching it, and the cast (particularly Gilpin, who has to weather a lot of different comedic and dramatic tones) is quite good. I don't think it's as strong as Watchmen or the last season of Leftovers, but it's an interesting and experimental series with some delightfully insane moments, and I'm always glad to see shows with that level of ambition get made.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Jun 25, 2023 16:27:41 GMT -8
I'm curious what Jeremy made of The Diplomat, created by Debora Cahn of West Wing fame - I had fun with it, and it sort of felt like it was splitting the difference between 24 and Veep (!!) which is a fun place to be. It's particularly fun (for a twisted definition of fun) to view the show as a different, post-2016 spin - a "woke reboot" if you will - of the Clintons-but-good fantasy Sorkin ran with back in the '90s. Keri Russell's character is either intentionally a Hillary Clinton analogue or just doomed to be interpreted as one because even in 2023 we have no other model for women in high political positions in this country other than HRC, and it's fun to sort of watch her character casually say things that go against the Sorkinian version of liberal foreign policy (particularly re: manufactured consent for Iraq, given the more jingoist slant WW took after - and honestly even before - 9/11) ... actually, maybe this would be fun to chat with with Noah, if he's still lurking here.
I do want to watch Mrs Davis so once I get Peacock back I'll give you my thoughts on that.
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