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Post by Zarnium on May 31, 2017 14:53:54 GMT -8
I had a similar "what the heck is this?" reaction to the first episode, but eventually I decided that it's actually pretty brilliant for the way it paints Megumi as a harmless doofus only to dramatically subvert that in all her later appearances. I'm fine with Natsuno coming back to life, and I think his case is interesting in that he's one of the few proactively anti-Kirishiki characters who avoids doing anything morally questionable as well as one of the few turned villagers who remains resolutely opposed to them, but I wish a bit more was done with him post-turn.
Another aspect of the series I really liked is that so much about the whole vampire culture and modus operandi is left mysterious. The only vampires (or people with prior knowledge of them) who come from outside the village that we see are the Kirishikis; all of the other vampires are turned villagers, and all knowledge about vampire biology, capabilities, history, and social structure either comes from them or comes from Ozaki's research and observations. (Except for maybe Seishin's father; more on him in a bit.) It's implied that there's a larger vampire society that directs efforts to create vampire strongholds and obtain sources of blood, but practically nothing is known about them. This provides a really creepy atmosphere; it's obvious that there are powerful forces at work that have been around for quite some time, but they've kept themselves hidden so well that no one has a clue, and there's nowhere outside for the villagers to look to for help or information.
As for Seishin's father, I don't know if I missed something, but I could never figure out what the significance of his story was. It's implied that knew about the existance of vampires beforehand, and he eventually is turned into one somehow and is killed without putting up a fight when discovered. I'm not sure how he knew, how and when he was turned, or how it connects to anything else, except maybe that it's foreshadowing Seishin rising up.
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Post by Zarnium on Jun 1, 2017 15:41:43 GMT -8
Oh, one other thing; it's easy to miss, but this show is actually set in the nineties rather than the present day. Presumably, this is because the original novel came out in 1998, but it also dovetails nicely with the horror aspects of the story, since the lack of cell phones or internet makes it difficult for anyone in the village to contact the outside world; imagine how different the show would be if everyone was posting pictures of vampires on Facebook, or if Ozaki and Natsuno were able to connect with other true-believers online. This makes me wonder, will we see more fiction set in the late twentieth century going forward, out of a desire to create a sense of isolation that is difficult to replicate in the modern era where everyone and everything is available 24/7? I don't know, but It strikes me that the technological developments of the last ten years change a lot of dynamics in storytelling that we've typically taken for granted. Edit: Also of interest, I found the music video of the theme song. I like the symbolism of the scenes panning over the dancer and dinner table, but it's kind of ruined whenever we see the singer, who looks just a tad ridiculous and overly self-serious.
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Post by Jay on Jun 7, 2017 12:50:41 GMT -8
This fellow appeared in the latest One-Punch Man manga and it made me happy
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Post by Zarnium on Jun 8, 2017 21:37:52 GMT -8
So, I would laugh at the Japanese for misspelling "disaster," but every single one of the fifty or so "visitor parking" signs at my new apartment say "vistor parking." No joke.
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Post by Jay on Jun 8, 2017 22:01:23 GMT -8
I think that was a translator error, and I was tempted to post one of the many "YARD SARD" images from the internet in response, but eh, you get the idea.
I'm actually dropping in to comment on my continued appreciation of how the AoT anime right now is featuring a lot of Reiner as is the manga, so it's syncing up in interesting ways to make him a much more complex character. I'm also starting to wonder if one thing that's hidden in plain sight that might become more relevant later on is the presence of the abnormal titans, since they seem to become especially weird around shifters and there's no concrete explanation yet for the how and why of them.
I also think that it's getting to the point where AoT is outpacing Fullmetal Alchemist as far as shonen with the "war sucks" motif.
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Post by Zarnium on Jun 9, 2017 10:29:37 GMT -8
I'm not entirely certain what even qualifies a garden-variety titan as "abnormal." Sometimes ones that are unusually fast or have a strange body shape are specifically called out as abnormal, but other times not. I mean, for generic mooks, they're all generally pretty distinct from each other in appearance and behavior.
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Post by Jay on Jun 10, 2017 12:06:47 GMT -8
I think that the series has pretty well established at this point what the generic titan is like because we see them so often. They're giant eating machines whose danger is in their size and physical capacities relative to the average human. For the most part, they don't seem to show much other than responsiveness to their environment: "See human, grasp at human," more or less. They're single-minded and don't seem to show much of a capacity for complex thinking. When I'm thinking of the abnormals, I'm specifically thinking of the events surrounding and immediately after Castle Utgard, where there were titans that were not pawing at the towers or the trees, but instead holding back, waiting, observing, or in different other cases, moving erratically. It makes me wonder if there are titans whose bodies have destroyed their former human consciousness and whether there are titans where some element of human intelligence remains and what that means. But it's more stuff that I can't really get into until you're at the point where I am in the manga at which point I imagine a different set of questions will have come to light for me and I may have answers for some of the stuff I'm presently asking.
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Post by Zarnium on Jun 10, 2017 22:34:27 GMT -8
There are definitely some that are more intelligent or retain more of their original personhood than most others, but the term "abnormal" doesn't seem to specifically denote them. As I recall, it's first used to describe a titan that shows a penchant for climbing buildings, then later, it's used to describe the titan that walks on all fours that chases after Sasha, neither of which display a lot of intelligence. Occasionally a somewhat more intelligent or calculating titan will appear, but it's inconsistent whether anyone identifies such a titan as "abnormal." Like, Armin calls the titan lounging near the base of the tree in a recent episode an abnormal, but in season 1 when he's watching a titan learning to climb trees in order to get to him, he doesn't. The titan shifters are often called abnormal by people who don't realize they're shifters, but that's an unusual case since so few titans are shifters and no one in the walls had seen one until recently. As for the ones at Castle Utgard, those were under the thrall of the Beast Titan, so I'm not sure how that was affecting their normal behavior, but regardless, I don't think anyone ever called them abnormals. There doesn't seem to be much of a formal categorization of "abnormal," other than that barely anything is known about the titans, so any one of them that seems slightly different from the norm is sometimes called "abnormal."
In other news, was that flashback of Ymir's pre-titan life in the manga? I don't remember it. It reminds of something that's been bugging me, though. When a titan eats a human titan-shifter, they become human again and gain the ability to switch between forms. But how long does the transition take? Eren seems to change back instantly, as do the Reiss shifters. However, Ymir's transition takes enough time that Reiner and Bertholdt aren't still there to see her when she changes back, and the titan that ate Eren never changed at all. My best guess is that the the change only happens when the devoured human dies, which in some cases is instantly, and other times can take a horrifyingly long time.
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Post by Jay on Jun 10, 2017 23:03:15 GMT -8
Well, consistent terminology would help but I think that titan science as such didn't much exist before Hange because taboos and whatnot. But then I think it's more constant in the Japanese stuff, which is what I watch, so... I'll add that the Beast Titan has specific powers that enable him to control some titans more readily. That's not really spoiling anything since you can see it from the get-go. Basically, the titans trying to climb the tree, that's normal, the titans watching the tree or hanging out near the tree, that's abnormal. They have higher level planning capabilities or greater command of their bodies is the gist of it.
To answer the Ymir question, the manga did recently grant her a bit of a flashback chapter which could be why you're seeing it in episode right now. In fact, they also dropped another major hint based on manga material but it's one of those things that you wouldn't really have enough information to do anything with anyway (that'll be next volume for you, as well as an explanation for what has to happen for a shifter to be a shifter which excludes what happened initially to Eren). That said, a lot about Ymir remains quite unclear and as yet unexplained, as there are a lot of questions that could conceivably be asked about her that would cause the existence of the titan shifters to make more sense. Obviously, the mangaka doesn't want to play his hand too much so I imagine that it's going to come out later, along with the ninth titan, which is still unknown. These mangaka, it's a thing with them not to release information.
Also, light spoiler ahead, hardly meaningful, but read at your own discretion: the quadrupedal titan is a shifter.
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Post by Zarnium on Jun 11, 2017 5:55:56 GMT -8
Oh, yeah, I figured the one carrying stuff for the Beast Titan is a shifter. I'm talking about the one that goes after Sasha in the first expedition outside the walls.
I finally ordered volume 21 from the library, though I'll always be at least 8-10 chapters behind the Japanese release, unfortunately.
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Post by Jay on Jun 11, 2017 11:16:05 GMT -8
Ah, well, it's a good thing that I used some discretion there because I thought you had already had read that volume. Well, I'm sure you'll have some responses once you do (he said, cryptically)
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Post by Zarnium on Jun 14, 2017 7:21:28 GMT -8
HOLY CRAP I just realized something in Attack on Titan!
As you'll recall, fairly early in the manga, there was a scene in which a scout ran across a talking titan who called her "Lady Ymir" and bowed before becoming enraged, biting off her head, and sticking her corpse in a tree. Now, other than that this probably has something to do with Ymir, the whole event has been shrouded in mystery and lacked an explanation for a long time... but with the recent Ymir flashback where it is revealed that somewhere outside of the walls, Ymir was being worshipped for some reason by a bunch of people who were punished for it by being titanized and banished, could it be that this titan was one of her followers?
EDIT: Also, come to think of it, given that this thread has been 70% AOT discussion that is also riddled with spoilers, maybe we should just make a dedicated AOT thread?
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Post by Jay on Jun 14, 2017 12:14:07 GMT -8
I think I remember when FMA was on its run and closing in on the finale with the second anime hot on its heels, most discussion on the anime thread of a board I frequented centered on that, so if that's happening with AoT, I don't necessarily have a problem with it. The thing is that 1) Manga and anime are so closely united in the culture (were we in Japan, there would also be the possibility of radio dramas and live-action movies and musicals) that if we were to start a new AoT thread, I wouldn't know where to put it categorically, and 2) We're pretty much the only ones posting in here anyway.
I still haven't caught up on the AoT anime, I think I'm two or three episodes behind now, but it does sound like what you're ending up with here is a fairly recent manga chapter that had its content pushed back into earlier in the anime's lore. I think that it makes sense to do that because it gives you a different sense of Reiner/Bertholdt's motives for being where they are and doing what they're doing. The last several months worth of chapters in the manga have been more about their worldview and it's been valuable, but I also wonder about it in terms of the fact that to address Ymir's past gives us a look outward while the Reiss family arc is a hard turn inward. I hope that they can make it make sense, likely by addressing the memories of the king.
Also, about Ymir, that's a good connection to be making but the name Ymir ends up being somewhat synonymous with Fritz and Reiss and all that, so while odds are good that titan is referring to the Ymir we know, it could also just be referring to the larger group of people capable of turning into titans. I think that regarding that one as also abnormal makes my earlier thesis a little more interesting but whatever.
I hope to be jumping back into other anime now that I've run my course through TWD.
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Post by Zarnium on Jun 14, 2017 13:24:06 GMT -8
I can't recall, have you ever made any comment on The Future Diary? I say this not because it is good, but rather, because it is possibly the worst TV show I've ever seen... yet practically everyone else who's seen it thinks it's great, and I can't fathom why. I cannot recommend it in good conscience, but it would make a good conversation piece if you're curious.
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Post by Jay on Jun 14, 2017 13:59:15 GMT -8
I'd be willing to watch it if only to be vexed and perplexed by it. It's not like anime makes any sense anyway, Strike Witches saved Gonzo from going bankrupt, or so I hear.
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