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Post by ThirdMan on Aug 6, 2021 15:58:05 GMT -8
I thought Cena was pretty decent in Blockers and that Bumblebee movie, but his character was certainly given more dimension here than in those films. Anyways, yeah, the movie is pretty num-num. Not quite as campy as I was expecting it to be, though (despite featuring a Polka-Dot Man, a human-shark hybrid, and a starfish kaiju).
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Post by Jeremy on Aug 7, 2021 19:52:16 GMT -8
The characters picked for this film (Polka-Dot Man, King Shark, Starro) fit right in with the gleeful, manic energy that Gunn was going for. A lot of DC villains/anti-heroes who would be lame and idiotic in a traditional superhero movie but feel perfectly at home in this one. That said, I'm annoyed that they cast Nathan Fillion as Arm Fall Off Boy but didn't call him Arm Fall Off Boy. I honestly wasn't sure if I'd take to Cena's character, but he worked quite well, especially his scenes with Elba and Kinnaman. I'm now looking forward to the Peacemaker TV series - written and mostly directed by James Gunn - which has potential to be a lot of fun (as long as it doesn't get too preachy).
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Post by ThirdMan on Aug 7, 2021 20:22:04 GMT -8
I think it's kind of interesting that Cena's played what are ostensibly two villain roles in blockbuster movies this summer. Because as much as many wrestling fans wanted him to "turn heel" over the years to freshen up his do-gooder character, he resisted, greatly due to all of his charitable work with children (he's granted over 650 wishes for the Make-A-Wish foundation over the years, more than any other celebrity). I'm aware that he supposedly eventually teams up with brother (heh) Vin Diesel in F9, and he's initially positioned in a sort of hero role in The Suicide Squad, but he's definitely leaning into darker shades as of late. I assume Peacemaker, in the TV series, will be more of an anti-hero role at the most (is it a prequel or a sequel, or both?), but it's fun seeing him play around with his publicly noble presentation.
It IS kind of funny, though, that they make mention of needing Peacemaker to "save the world", in a fictional universe where Superman exists. But that always been an issue w/r/t the overabundance of costumed characters -- some with superpowers, some not -- floating around in DC and Marvel.
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Post by Jeremy on Aug 8, 2021 4:02:02 GMT -8
During the climax of the film, my first thought was "Where is the Justice League?" Though for the most part, the film did a much better job than the first film of explaining why the government needed supervillains to do the work instead of superheroes.
I'm not convinced Cena can pull off a genuine villain role (his performance was one of the weaker components of F9), but he's found a nice balance with Peacemaker. The TV series will apparently be a sequel to the film, and will feature a couple of other minor characters (Waller's aides) from The Suicide Squad as well.
Peacemaker is an interesting choice for a headliner, as he was originally a traditional superhero created by a secondary publisher in the '60s, and wasn't acquired by DC Comics until decades later. Plucking such an obscure kid-friendly character and making him a central figure in an R-rated movie and TV series is weirdly hilarious to me, somehow.
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Post by ThirdMan on Aug 8, 2021 13:34:37 GMT -8
It should be noted that Cena DID indeed work as a heel-rapper character in the wrestling in the mid 2000s, and got over with the crowd in a big way, but once he became the more kid-friendly good guy who sold a ton of merchandise, he never reverted back to being a bad guy. It's possible he's lost touch with that side of himself over the years. That said, he's more than willing, and able, to play parodic versions of good guys in film, to good effect. On a side note, one thing that made me laugh during The Suicide Squad was that his character slept in his tighty-whiteys, as he was showing far more skin than he ever did as a wrestler. That's, to my recollection, the most he's ever been objectified in a big mainstream film (outside of, I guess, his partially nude scene in Trainwreck).
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Post by Jeremy on Aug 8, 2021 18:54:32 GMT -8
I'll defer to you re. Cena's early days, since you seem to be the wrestling expert on this forum. I don't think I can name a single pro wrestler outside of those who have worked in acting.
I think Cena's done a pretty good job of transitioning from kid-oriented junk like the Fred trilogy to more mainstream action fare. He doesn't have quite the onscreen magnetism of The Rock, but he's amiable enough when given the right role. (And when he's not apologizing for calling Taiwan a country. Sigh.)
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Post by ThirdMan on Aug 9, 2021 17:14:04 GMT -8
Despite his big commercial success, he doesn't appear to have a huge ego, either. He's willing to put in the work to get better, and more than willing to acknowledge his shortcomings. He'll never win any acting awards, but he seems to be steadily finding his niche. It's a shame The Suicide Squad didn't perform better at the box office, though, despite being vastly superior to the earlier film.
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Post by Jeremy on Aug 9, 2021 20:19:24 GMT -8
I continue to think that Warner Bros' deal to stream all their 2021 movies on HBO Max at no additional charge was a financial mistake, and is part of why The Suicide Squad underperformed at the box office (in addition to being an R-rated film functioning as a sorta-sequel to a poorly-received film from years ago). Still, it's generating a lot of online buzz - presumably a lot of people have streamed it - so maybe that'll be an incentive to DC to keep the experimental shtick going.
Despite its faults, I think it's probably the best blockbuster film I've seen this summer, outside of A Quiet Place Part II. It hasn't exactly been a strong summer for movies, though clearly a step up from last year.
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Post by ThirdMan on Aug 9, 2021 21:31:10 GMT -8
Yeah, it's weird that HBO Max doesn't charge a premium for the big theatrical releases, as Disney-Plus has done in the past number of months. That said, they've held back releases like Matt Reeves' The Batman for 2022 for a reason. Warner Bros. saw The Joker, a $58-million-budgeted film, hit $1 billion at the worldwide box office, and can only imagine the return they'll get on The Batman, which apparently only had a production budget of $100 million. That film looks interesting, though I wonder if the detective-focused approach will get overlooked by those who are simply tired of "grimdark" superhero films.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Aug 10, 2021 15:46:30 GMT -8
The Suicide Squad is perhaps the most insane live-action comic-book blockbuster ever made, and I mean that in a good way. While the blood-soaked violence and excessive body count (this film earns every inch of its R rating, and then some) did wear things out by the end, it's clear that DC learned from the behind-the-scenes issues that plagued the first Suicide Squad movie, and let James Gunn do whatever popped into the swirling void of crazy he calls a head. The resulting movie is gleefully manic, yet also intermittently poignant, with several Squad members getting compelling character moments throughout the film. (Polka-Dot Man is developed far more than you'd ever expect a guy named Polka-Dot Man to be.) The cast is excellent, with standout work from Idris Elba, Margot Robbie, and John Cena (giving perhaps the first legitimately good performance of his career). The musical cues, while not as overt as the ones in Gunn's Guardians films, do a great job of coloring the story and providing appropriate punctuation. There's even some clever use of establishing chyrons and a rare example of in medias res storytelling utilized appropriately. Not a masterpiece (it's overlong and uneven in its third act), but one of the best in the DCEU. Admittedly, I might be a little biased towards the film as I watched it on the heels of binging another R-rated DC property, the second season of Titans (S3 debuts next week). Despite a promising start and a few standout episodes littered throughout the season, the show is quickly succumbing to the same issues that ended up ruining Arrow - clumsy pacing, overabundance of storylines competing for attention, and the need to prioritize grimdark twists above story and character logic. It all comes together (or rather, doesn't) in a spectacularly ineffective finale that haphazardly resolves a few dangling threads and features one of the most contrived character deaths I've seen on a TV show in years. We're getting to the point where Teen Titans Go! is a more creative and consistent vision of the titular team, and we should never be at that point. I just saw it last night in the theater, and had a great time with it. James Gunn understands that the only way to get the Suicide Squad to work as a concept is to push everything to 11. And he did with minimal studio interference. I'd say the sentimental stuff worked a bit better for me than it did for you, though it wasn't as touching as Guardians 2.
What ruined the Arrowverse was that they don't know how to do anything other than manufactured conflict and endless, meaningless twists. So of course they all flamed out after a season or two. There's nothing there there. Well-structured plots, three-dimensional characters, or conflict that arises organically from within is basically anathema to Arrow, The Flash, and Supergirl.
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Post by Jeremy on Aug 10, 2021 20:04:21 GMT -8
I think the sentimental scenes in The Suicide Squad worked fine, and were helped by the undercurrent of dark humor they were infused with. I would've preferred the screentime be shared a bit more equally (less Harley, more Ratcatcher and Polka-Dot Man), but there were plenty of compelling arcs to go around. Yeah, it's weird that HBO Max doesn't charge a premium for the big theatrical releases, as Disney-Plus has done in the past number of months. That said, they've held back releases like Matt Reeves' The Batman for 2022 for a reason. Warner Bros. saw The Joker, a $58-million-budgeted film, hit $1 billion at the worldwide box office, and can only imagine the return they'll get on The Batman, which apparently only had a production budget of $100 million. That film looks interesting, though I wonder if the detective-focused approach will get overlooked by those who are simply tired of "grimdark" superhero films. If it has Batman, people will watch. He's the second-biggest superhero draw in cinema after Spidey, and DC will keep rebooting the Bat-franchise until the sun swallows us all. I would not be surprised if Matrix 4 gets pushed to 2022, putting it outside the HBO Max window. Warner Bros. has been hit hard in the box office this year ( Godzilla vs. Kong aside) and need to save face where they can.
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Post by otherscott on Aug 18, 2021 6:46:11 GMT -8
As you guys have stated, very bonkers movie. I don't think it's my type of movie overall, as I don't really see the excessive gore and slaughter adding much to it, but Gunn knows how to expertly handle this type of stuff, and there were some concepts and set pieces he played around with that are just brilliant. So yes, much better than the first movie, and better than the movie I had seen most recently in the cinema before this, Birds of Prey or the Title that Just Keeps Going.
I watched all of Season 2 of Titans and remember approximately zero of it. Will I watch Season 3 anyways? Possibly, I feel a weird attachment to DC properties despite the fact that so few of them are actually good.
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Post by Jeremy on Mar 4, 2022 13:29:26 GMT -8
is The Batman technically a DCEU film? Maybe not, although the upcoming Flash movie suggests that DC will soon be following Marvel along the Multiverse path). Whatever.
First, the good (and there is a fair deal of it): The Batman perfectly captures a vivid noir aesthetic that evokes prior iterations of the character while still feeling wholly of a piece on its own. Matt Reeves* and his team create a dark and gloomy Gotham that feels lived-in down to the corruption at its core. The music is particularly spectacular - Michael Giacchino's minor-key score is haunting and foreboding, perfectly in sync with the film's dark and immersive visual style**. And the cast is top-notch, with standout villainous (or quasi-villainous) turns from Paul Dano, Colin Farrell, and Zoe Kravitz. Robert Pattinson's Bruce Wayne is somewhat underdeveloped - and unintentionally evoked certain memories of Emo Peter - but his Dark Knight Detective (refreshing emphasis on detective, moreso than previous franchises) is a riveting onscreen presence.
Now the less-good: For a film that is nearly three hours long, there's a surprising number of plot points that are... weirdly chopped up and glossed over? Not to mention several potent themes (wealth, power, social media) that are grappled with in disappointingly facile ways. I'm not saying I want a Batman movie to focus on socially-consciousness, but for such a grimly serious film, the treatment of these themes - a few comments about the Wayne's poor little rich boy, Catwoman's brief "white privilege" lecture - seems remarkably shallow.
This film is trying to be a lot of different things and depict both Batman and Gotham from a multitude of angles. It features a crime family, a seedy underworld, an agent of chaos, a morally grey romantic foil, and a corrupt hierarchy that extends from the city's darkest alleys its tallest skyscrapers. It's a lot to take in, and the film ultimately bites off more than it could chew.
I don't want to sound too negative about the film, which I quite liked overall. It's just perhaps a bit too ambitious for its own good.
Curious to see how audiences react; Batman has long been a bankable property, and there's not much competition at the theaters this month. But it's probably longer and heavier than the average superhero film fan is used to.
*I remain amused that the guy who made his name on the peppy comedy-drama about a frizzy-haired college girl is now helming some of the darkest blockbusters in recent memory. **Mostly immersive, in my theater. The idiot sitting in front of me kept looking at his phone throughout the film, and the light from the screen periodically distracted me. It took a lot of self-control to keep me from kicking the back of his seat. I hope he appreciated that.
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Post by ThirdMan on Mar 4, 2022 17:15:10 GMT -8
I think any time an IP blockbuster tackles widespread social issues, it's going to "bite off more than it can chew" to a degree, because it still has to, in the end, meet the demands of an IP blockbuster. That said, I thought the film juggled its many elements rather well overall, and I liked how each notable plot point transitioned into the next, and often built on it. And addressing the issue of "not all orphans being alike" was rather potent here.
Also, to me, this is the best-acted live-action Batman film in history. Everyone delivered in their roles, with no notable weak points, and nobody standing far above the crowd (as Ledger did, for many, in The Dark Knight). Despite obviously having a decent amount of plot-exposition around the detective work, a lot more information was conveyed via body-language in silent moments than is typical for this sort of film. Pattinson says a lot with his eyes, with his Batman constantly studying his environment, and feeling almost alien amongst the "regular" folks (even more so when he's out of the Batsuit in daylight). Yeah, his Bruce Wayne is "underdeveloped", because the character hasn't figured out his public persona yet, still struggling with events of the past: he's in an emotional haze. That said, I didn't find him cartoonish at all in the way that Emo Peter was. I've seen pictures of a longer-haired Bruce Wayne in the comics that is almost identical. Also, given how much Batman (in costume) is in the film, it's a shockingly measured performance, in terms of his visual presentation from scene-to-scene, but also how he modulates his Bat-voice without going overboard (as Bale sometimes did in the role).
This film has far more sexual-tension than any PG-13 comic-book film since Batman Returns, with Batman and Selina being far more relatable and developed here than in that film. Zoe Kravitz is very, very good here, and has great chemistry with Pattinson. She's going to get a lot more high-profile roles going forward.
I'll discuss other elements in the weeks-to-come, but yeah, Giacchino's score is tremendous, especially in how its more aggressive main hero theme dovetails with its more sorrowful elements. I familiarized myself with the score before watching the film, but it's implemented exceptionally well in the film proper.
Saw this film twice (on Wednesday night and Thursday afternoon), and it was even better, and more emotionally-engrossing, the second time. Quite the opposite of what I experienced when I recently revisited the latest Spider-Man installment, where I felt significantly less than on initial viewing.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Mar 5, 2022 16:09:38 GMT -8
is The Batman technically a DCEU film? Maybe not, although the upcoming Flash movie suggests that DC will soon be following Marvel along the Multiverse path). Whatever. First, the good (and there is a fair deal of it): The Batman perfectly captures a vivid noir aesthetic that evokes prior iterations of the character while still feeling wholly of a piece on its own. Matt Reeves* and his team create a dark and gloomy Gotham that feels lived-in down to the corruption at its core. The music is particularly spectacular - Michael Giacchino's minor-key score is haunting and foreboding, perfectly in sync with the film's dark and immersive visual style**. And the cast is top-notch, with standout villainous (or quasi-villainous) turns from Paul Dano, Colin Farrell, and Zoe Kravitz. Robert Pattinson's Bruce Wayne is somewhat underdeveloped - and unintentionally evoked certain memories of Emo Peter - but his Dark Knight Detective (refreshing emphasis on detective, moreso than previous franchises) is a riveting onscreen presence. Now the less-good: For a film that is nearly three hours long, there's a surprising number of plot points that are... weirdly chopped up and glossed over? Not to mention several potent themes (wealth, power, social media) that are grappled with in disappointingly facile ways. I'm not saying I want a Batman movie to focus on socially-consciousness, but for such a grimly serious film, the treatment of these themes - a few comments about the Wayne's poor little rich boy, Catwoman's brief "white privilege" lecture - seems remarkably shallow. This film is trying to be a lot of different things and depict both Batman and Gotham from a multitude of angles. It features a crime family, a seedy underworld, an agent of chaos, a morally grey romantic foil, and a corrupt hierarchy that extends from the city's darkest alleys its tallest skyscrapers. It's a lot to take in, and the film ultimately bites off more than it could chew. I don't want to sound too negative about the film, which I quite liked overall. It's just perhaps a bit too ambitious for its own good. Curious to see how audiences react; Batman has long been a bankable property, and there's not much competition at the theaters this month. But it's probably longer and heavier than the average superhero film fan is used to. *I remain amused that the guy who made his name on the peppy comedy-drama about a frizzy-haired college girl is now helming some of the darkest blockbusters in recent memory. ** Mostly immersive, in my theater. The idiot sitting in front of me kept looking at his phone throughout the film, and the light from the screen periodically distracted me. It took a lot of self-control to keep me from kicking the back of his seat. I hope he appreciated that. Matt Reeves is very good. I re-watched the Planet of the Apes reboot trilogy recently, and it's still pretty baffling how good they turned out to be, especially those final two. That being said, I agree with you that the themes and characterization seem to have gotten lost just a bit in the shuffle. All the pieces are there, but the film just doesn't explore them in any depth--usually just keeping it contained to brief conversations. Which was a bit odd. That being said--visually stunning stuff and definitely one of the most interesting big-budget films in a while. I'd still put it behind Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, Mask of the Phantasm, and Batman Returns. (I love the weird psycho-sexual nightmare that is Batman Returns. For me, it's one of the essential Christmas films).
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