Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Dec 29, 2019 12:21:51 GMT -8
Because I do not feel remotely qualified to make a "best TV shows of the decade" list, I am instead making a "top episodes of the decade" list.
5. Black Mirror - "Nosedive" 4. Breaking Bad - "Ozymandias" 3. The Good Place - "Dance Dance Resolution" 2. Cucumber - "Episode Six" 1. The Americans - "Dyatkovo"
I welcome your "wait, what" s.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Dec 29, 2019 13:21:41 GMT -8
Because I do not feel remotely qualified to make a "best TV shows of the decade" list, I am instead making a "top episodes of the decade" list. 5. Black Mirror - "Nosedive" 4. Breaking Bad - "Ozymandias" 3. The Good Place - "Dance Dance Resolution" 2. Cucumber - "Episode Six" 1. The Americans - "Dyatkovo" I welcome your "wait, what" s. The final fifteen minutes of "Dyatkovo" are about as good as tv drama gets. "Dinner For Seven" is probably my second favorite-perfect awkwardness. No 'wait, what's?' from me. Except for "Nosedive." I did not care for that episode much-didn't seem like an intelligent take on technology in the way other Black Mirrors were. In fact, it was basically "App Development and Condiments" from Community played straight. Anyway... 20. "Advanced Dungeons and Dragons" ( Community 2x14) 19. "Win, Lose, or Draw" ( Parks and Recreation 4x22) 18. "What Was Missing" ( Adventure Time 3x10) 17. "Remedial Chaos Theory" ( Community 3x03) 16. "Dance Dance Resolution" ( The Good Place 2x03) 15. "Dyatkovo" ( The Americans 5x11) 14. "Twilight of the Apprentice" ( Star Wars Rebels 2x21 and 2x22) 13. "Decoy" ( Justified 4x11) 12. "Teddy Perkins" ( Atlanta 2x06) 11. "Sacrificial Necrosis" ( Steins;gate 1x16) 10. "The Threshold" ( Halt and Catch Fire 3x07) 9. "The Suitcase" ( Mad Men 4x07) 8. "White Tulip" ( Fringe 2x18) 7. "Hitting the Fan" ( The Good Wife 5x05) 6. "Ozymandias" ( Breaking Bad 5x14) 5. "The Devil's Share" ( Person of Interest 3x10) 4. "The Son" ( Friday Night Lights 4x05) 3. "Fish Out of Water" ( BoJack Horseman 3x04) 2. "Mizumono" ( Hannibal 2x13) 1. "If-Then-Else" ( Person of Interest 4x11) I'm pretty satisfied with that list. I will be most certainly adding a Manhattan episode to it when I finish that because it is one of the top 5 shows of the decade for me. It's utterly brilliant.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 29, 2019 15:01:51 GMT -8
I'm too fatigued on all these lists to try my hand at a "Best Episodes" run. But if I did, it would probably have a few parallels with Flame's, and I'd probably throw in a few eps like Lost's "Ab Aeterno" and Better Call Saul's "Chicanery."
I'm still not sure if "The Son" counts as an episode from this decade, since it technically first aired in 2009. But it's an amazing episode, so I'll allow it.
Glad you're enjoying Manhattan, Flame. I think the series finale, "Jupiter," is the show's best episode, although there are certainly some choice picks earlier on.
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Post by otherscott on Dec 29, 2019 16:28:52 GMT -8
Like Flamey, my only “wait, what” on Boscs list is “Nosedive” over “San Junipero”
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Dec 29, 2019 16:37:51 GMT -8
I'm too fatigued on all these lists to try my hand at a "Best Episodes" run. But if I did, it would probably have a few parallels with Flame's, and I'd probably throw in a few eps like Lost's "Ab Aeterno" and Better Call Saul's "Chicanery." I'm still not sure if "The Son" counts as an episode from this decade, since it technically first aired in 2009. But it's an amazing episode, so I'll allow it. Glad you're enjoying Manhattan, Flame. I think the series finale, "Jupiter," is the show's best episode, although there are certainly some choice picks earlier on. I'm fatigued as well. I had that list already floating around my head, thankfully. And both of the episodes you mentioned could probably kick off some of the comedy episodes on my list. Oh, yeah! The airing schedule of Friday Night Lights Season 3 and 4 was kind of a mess. Oh, I'm completely hooked on Manhattan. I'll post my extended thoughts once I watch Season 2.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Dec 29, 2019 17:11:02 GMT -8
I'm too fatigued on all these lists to try my hand at a "Best Episodes" run. But if I did, it would probably have a few parallels with Flame's, and I'd probably throw in a few eps like Lost's "Ab Aeterno" and Better Call Saul's "Chicanery." "Chicanery" was one of the episodes that I removed when I whittled my list down from nine to a more aesthetic five. Flame/Scott, there are plenty of great Black Mirror episodes, and there are cases for "San Junipero" and "Fifteen Million Merits" as better episodes. But "Nosedive" really hit a nerve for me. Yes, I suppose on paper the episode is that Community episode with the ranking system played completely straight, but the episode isn't great because the idea animating it is so original, it's great because it uses that idea to literalize, um, how do I put this... there's a particular kind of relationship hierarchy between women, especially when you're a young adult, and I didn't expect Black Mirror to handle that with such delicacy. So that's why it gets the nod over the also quite good "San Junipero." Also contrarianism.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Dec 29, 2019 17:17:37 GMT -8
OH, and the other big thing is that "Nosedive" is basically an hourlong pilot for The Good Place that does a much better job drawing emotional depth from the wrongness of its central premise than The Good Place (which I very much enjoy) does. And it's subverting an aesthetic that I think is much more exciting than San Junipero's 80s vibes.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 30, 2019 8:02:32 GMT -8
Okay, Metacritic's aggregated "Best Shows of the Decade" list now looks like:
1. The Leftovers 2. Fleabag 3. Breaking Bad 4. The Americans 5. Game of Thrones 6. Atlanta
Well below those, 7th place is a narrow three-way race between Mad Men, Parks and Rec, and Bojack Horseman.
If a few more lists pop up, it's entirely possible that Fleabag could wind up as critics' #1 show of the decade. I... did not see that coming.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Dec 30, 2019 10:06:00 GMT -8
OH, and the other big thing is that "Nosedive" is basically an hourlong pilot for The Good Place that does a much better job drawing emotional depth from the wrongness of its central premise than The Good Place (which I very much enjoy) does. And it's subverting an aesthetic that I think is much more exciting than San Junipero's 80s vibes. The Good Place would be near the bottom of shows I've watched this decade. That may sound harsh, but I only watch things I really, really like, so it's not that much of an insult. I find it very clever and funny-I put "Dance Dance Resolution" in my top 20 episodes list. But I don't see it as much beyond that. It's got the same corniness Emily Vanderwerff accused of B-99 of, but not as funny.
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Post by otherscott on Dec 30, 2019 10:15:31 GMT -8
Okay, Metacritic's aggregated "Best Shows of the Decade" list now looks like: 1. The Leftovers2. Fleabag3. Breaking Bad4. The Americans5. Game of Thrones6. AtlantaWell below those, 7th place is a narrow three-way race between Mad Men, Parks and Rec, and Bojack Horseman. If a few more lists pop up, it's entirely possible that Fleabag could wind up as critics' #1 show of the decade. I... did not see that coming. I think that the refusal of many critics to include shows that started earlier than 2010 has really messed up the aggregated list. And honestly, (and I know Jeremy ranked Fleabag higher in his list) I really struggle to see any argument for Fleabag over Atlanta if we are okay with two season shows.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 30, 2019 12:08:05 GMT -8
My reasoning is simple: Fleabag had two great seasons. Atlanta has had one great and one pretty good season.
Incidentally, here's how the picks for #1 show of the decade currently break down:
1. The Leftovers/The Americans (7 votes each) 2. Breaking Bad/Game of Thrones (5 votes each) 3. Fleabag/Watchmen (2 votes each)
That's right, there are two critics who called Watchmen the best show of the decade (though one of them cheated by having it share the slot with The Leftovers).
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Post by otherscott on Dec 30, 2019 14:12:24 GMT -8
I personally have Watchmen higher than Fleabag on my best of the decade list for what it’s worth. Neither would be in my top 25, both are somewhere in the 30ish range.
As a massive Lindelof fan I actually was fully prepared to have Watchmen somewhere in my top 10 of the decade if it turned out to be a transcendent show. As it turns out, I don’t even think it was particularly trying to be “transcendent”, whatever that means.
My overall opinion of Watchmen is actually very similar to Season 5 of Mad Men, it has terrific individual episodes but doesn’t quite come together as a whole as well as I feel it could have, and it really loses its loyalty to the spirit of the comic in the last couple episodes. But when it hits its highs, it’s really great.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 31, 2019 17:58:50 GMT -8
I liked Watchmen more than you did, and I'd say it's probably one of the best comic-book adaptations I've seen in a long time. As you say, it's quite strong on an episode level, but I think it also works well on a season level as well. It has a carefully constructed story which becomes more apparent and understandable as it goes, and ties in nicely with the comic at multiple intervals. (That blood drop at the end of the premiere was perfect.)
My main criticism is the way the show handles its messages, which are unsubtle in their parallels to modern America and occasionally undercut the original comic. Rorscach was the most fascinating character in the novel, and reducing him to the inspiration for a white-supremacist movement is... not only a gross misunderstanding of his character, but an egregious example of political revisionism.
Beyond that, it's an impressive show, certainly one of the best hourlong dramas I've seen recently. (As you may have noticed, most of my favorite shows now slot into the half-hour range.)
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Post by guttersnipe on Dec 31, 2019 18:24:53 GMT -8
I personally have Watchmen higher than Fleabag on my best of the decade list for what it’s worth. Neither would be in my top 25, both are somewhere in the 30ish range. Fleabag would be the same for me, only it probably comes off as a massive diss when you consider the number of shows I've watched.
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Post by otherscott on Jan 2, 2020 6:20:05 GMT -8
Let's close this out:
Number 1: Too Many Cooks (Adult Swim)
Well, not really, but I wanted to remind everyone of a great thing that happened this decade that I haven't seen remarked upon that much in retrospectives.
Number 1: Mad Men (AMC)
Mad Men was already a very good show going into this decade. It had won 3 consecutive Best Drama Emmys for its first 3 seasons, and had really told the story of a man falling from the perfect life simply due to his own boredom and lack of happiness with acheiving the American Dream. It seemed like a certain arc of the show had been completed, Don started Season 4 at an absolute low point, and the season was about a rebirth of sorts, the rebirth of Don with the start of his second relationship, and the rebirth of Sterling Cooper as SCDP after the events of the end of Season 3. This was a new era of the show, and it was going to be about something different. It wasn't just about the fall of a man, it was about the fall of a generation. We were going to kick into the 60s as we remember them today, and that meant the stiffness of the 50s was about to take a backseat in the cultural relevance. Make no mistake, don't believe what Jeremy tells you, the back half of this show is absolutely the superior half and is what truly makes the show stand out in the pantheon.
The show then had a long hiatus (at the time, nowadays we wouldn't even blink at a show not airing in a year the way Mad Men took 2011 off) before returning more experimentally, with one of the best seasons of an episodic basis that anyone had this decade. The stretch from "Mystery Date" to "Lady Lazarus" is the best stretch I think any show had this decade. The overall season didn't come together as well as it could have because the finale was subpar, but the show announced its intentions significantly. It was going to deal with the divide of the young vs the old - and Don's relationship with Megan was key to the whole thing. He was a more open person, a less hidden person, he revealed his whole life to Megan from the get-go in a way he hadn't with Betty, and in "In Care Of" he opens up about that life to clients (at the risk of his job) and to his daughter. He falls for the lure of the 60s revolution, but ultimately, of course, that doesn't bring him fulfillment either.
Look I can ramble about the themes of the show for a long time, and I haven't even mentioned how Peggy and Joan and Pete and Roger fit into the narrative, and all the ways they grow and shrink in different ways as the series develops. The show was about so many different things at so many different times, I can't even begin to get through them all. It was an entertainment method in itself just reading the different readings and retrospectives of the material as each episode aired.
This was my favourite show of the decade, as well as my favourite show ever. I hope the 2020s can bring to us something done as skillfully and wonderfully as this show was.
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