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Post by Jeremy on Nov 8, 2020 12:20:41 GMT -8
Some more shows I've been watching lately:
Teenage Bounty Hunters: An entertaining thriller-comedy series centering on two sisters who balance their Catholic school lives with a secret gig in bounty hunting. The show's strength lies in the chemistry between its two leads, and the dialogue which clearly has some DNA from Buffy and Veronica Mars - snappy patter, laced with pop-culture references and throwaway one-liners. And despite its obvious leftward biases, the show is able to craft some compelling small-town characters who don't feel like stereotypes. Sadly, Netflix cancelled it after a single season...
Fargo: Started watching the new season, and it's decent... but it's not quite as Fargo-ized as it should be. The story and tone feel more routine, and the overly complicated premise feels like a pastiche of elements from prior seasons. (Yayyy, another gang war.) The tone and cinematography remain top-notch, however, and will likely keep me watching. And Jessie Buckley is a standout as Oraetta Mayflower.
The Right Stuff: A lot of potential in this show, but very little of it realized. It's a mostly workmanlike retelling of the Mercury Seven saga, with key emphasis on the relationship between John Glenn and Alan Shepard. As a forward-thinking show about the dawn of the space race, it checks all the boxes (earnest young men, nervous wives, angry executives in shortsleeve shirts and bad ties), but does little beyond that. And I believe this is the first time I've seen an in medias res opening within a lengthy in medias res flashback. Weird.
The Mandalorian: Two episodes into the new season. The action is on a grander scale (one wonders how high the budget per episode is), and the sense of atmosphere - boosted by the continual great score - is top-notch. But it's still an extremely superficial show with one-note characters and plotlines. Waiting for something more, but Disney is probably happy with the level it's performing at.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Nov 12, 2020 23:12:09 GMT -8
So, with literally hundreds of streaming service choices over the past couple years to catch up on, I decided to watch... the Person of Interest pilot. And it was... pretty good! Charming procedural, albeit with not much of a cast at this point (just two dour guys with no real backstory yet beyond being bummed out over 9/11). This is definitely a show I could use a skip guide for, though - at least, until Amy Acker and Sarah Shahi show up and kick the arc stuff into high gear. I suspect some of you might have suggestions on what episodes can be safely removed from rotation. I don't like skip guides in general, like, for something where at a base level the show is kinda fun like Angel or X-Files, but po-faced crime dramas that are light on serialization I don't mind skipping clunkers without broader relevance to the wider story. I've located a tumblr post that purports to do exactly that odesandrants.tumblr.com/post/128131669757/person-of-interestBut idk, maybe you guys have better ideas of what I'd like than randos circa 2015.
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 13, 2020 6:31:23 GMT -8
Yeah, it's not every show I recommend a skip guide for, but Person of Interest is probably worth consulting one. It takes quite a while to get to the good stuff, but a lot of said good stuff is worth it. The guide I usually recommend is Matt Fowler's (who is not an Internet rando - not completely, anyway). It's particularly helpful for the first two seasons, which are heavy on generic standalones. From Season Three on, the show gets significantly more serialized, and there are only a handful of true "filler" episodes, so it may be best to watch the episodes straight through from there. On another note, we were discussing Peacock and SNL some months ago, and I noticed that Peacock recently updated its catalog to include every episode in SNL history. All free, I believe, with commercials. Just in case anyone is looking for a thousand-hour binge...
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Nov 13, 2020 18:49:25 GMT -8
Yeah, it's not every show I recommend a skip guide for, but Person of Interest is probably worth consulting one. It takes quite a while to get to the good stuff, but a lot of said good stuff is worth it. The guide I usually recommend is Matt Fowler's (who is not an Internet rando - not completely, anyway). It's particularly helpful for the first two seasons, which are heavy on generic standalones. From Season Three on, the show gets significantly more serialized, and there are only a handful of true "filler" episodes, so it may be best to watch the episodes straight through from there. On another note, we were discussing Peacock and SNL some months ago, and I noticed that Peacock recently updated its catalog to include every episode in SNL history. All free, I believe, with commercials. Just in case anyone is looking for a thousand-hour binge... Matt's guide skips too much, I think. The Babylon 5 rule mostly applies--the more important, the better--but the show has this annoying habit of stringing important plot points in the background of otherwise unimportant, lackluster chapters. Old Reddit's skippable episode list is much better, I think. From Season 1, skip Judgement (1x05), Foe (1x08), Legacy (1x12), Wolf and Cub (1x14), and Risk (1x16). From Season 2, skip.... Triggerman (2x04). Possibly Proteus (2x17) as well. Season 3 is easy. Skip Reasonable Doubt (3x04--no doubt Jeremy remembers this one and shudders), Provenance (3x14), and Last Call (3x15). Seasons 4 and 5 do not really have any that are easily skippable. I think the skip guide you listed is a good one (except that it skips Masquerade (2x03)). As it says, if you enjoyed the pilot, you will probably enjoy a lot of the standalones. If you enjoyed the pilot, I think you will dig Cura Te Ipsum (1x04). That's what pulled me into the series. Season 1 is somewhat infamous for being a bit rough, but it definitely improves by the end, settles down again in the first half of Season 2, then really catches fire and doesn't look back for the most part (Season 4's back half is a bit uneven, but not that bad). Definitely worth the time and trouble, though. It's excellent. I'd personally put it right up there with Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. Along with Fringe, it is by far the most successful American science fiction series of the 21st century, to my mind. Despite some dull one-offs. And Amy Acker's role is so much better than Fred it's mind-boggling.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Nov 13, 2020 19:01:47 GMT -8
I mostly just want to know what episodes I can skip with no consequences - watching a grim procedural with 16 episodes a season is doable in a way it isn't with 23 a season.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Nov 13, 2020 19:15:46 GMT -8
I mostly just want to know what episodes I can skip with no consequences - watching a grim procedural with 16 episodes a season is doable in a way it isn't with 23 a season. The other guide outlines quite nicely which parts of those otherwise disposable episodes you can skip to. As I said, often times important character and plot points are nestled in the background in the way they weren't on, say, The X-Files. Example: 1x03 is not on the 2015 skip guide, but it does set up a major plot point. You will still be able to get it, I think. The line between mythos and one-off is far more blurry on this show than one would expect. Though it's worth noting that the show lightens up eventually, I get your point. In Season 1, Skip 5, the non-flashbacks parts of 8, 12, 14, and 16 except for the last 2 minutes. You can also skip 18. Season 2 is the hardest for me. Only 4, 17, and 18 except for the last 5 minutes are skippable with no consequences. Watch the rest because a lot of them are fun! (Particularly 3, 5, 8, and 15). Season 3: Skip 4, 14, and 15. This season is heavily, heavily serialized. (If you're pressed for time, you can use the timecodes for 1 and 3). Season 4: Skip episode 16 outside of its ending because it is pretty poor. Other than that, there are some so-so standalones (thinking of episodes 6 and 8), but they touch on the mythology in some way and aren't bad anyway. Season 5: You have to watch it all, except for episode 6--but I quite like that one.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Nov 13, 2020 19:23:24 GMT -8
Yeah, it's not every show I recommend a skip guide for, but Person of Interest is probably worth consulting one. It takes quite a while to get to the good stuff, but a lot of said good stuff is worth it. If-Then-Else ftw. Also The Devil's Share. Also Relevance.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Nov 13, 2020 21:19:59 GMT -8
I mostly just want to know what episodes I can skip with no consequences - watching a grim procedural with 16 episodes a season is doable in a way it isn't with 23 a season. The other guide outlines quite nicely which parts of those otherwise disposable episodes you can skip to. As I said, often times important character and plot points are nestled in the background in the way they weren't on, say, The X-Files. Example: 1x03 is not on the 2015 skip guide, but it does set up a major plot point. You will still be able to get it, I think. The line between mythos and one-off is far more blurry on this show than one would expect. Though it's worth noting that the show lightens up eventually, I get your point. In Season 1, Skip 5, the non-flashbacks parts of 8, 12, 14, and 16 except for the last 2 minutes. You can also skip 18. Season 2 is the hardest for me. Only 4, 17, and 18 except for the last 5 minutes are skippable with no consequences. Watch the rest because a lot of them are fun! (Particularly 3, 5, 8, and 15). Season 3: Skip 4, 14, and 15. This season is heavily, heavily serialized. (If you're pressed for time, you can use the timecodes for 1 and 3). Season 4: Skip episode 16 outside of its ending because it is pretty poor. Other than that, there are some so-so standalones (thinking of episodes 6 and 8), but they touch on the mythology in some way and aren't bad anyway. Season 5: You have to watch it all, except for episode 6--but I quite like that one. Hm, ok. I can probably just check Doux Reviews or the aptly named "Pedia of Interest" for synopses of the plotty episodes I missed, I think.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Nov 14, 2020 16:24:35 GMT -8
The other guide outlines quite nicely which parts of those otherwise disposable episodes you can skip to. As I said, often times important character and plot points are nestled in the background in the way they weren't on, say, The X-Files. Example: 1x03 is not on the 2015 skip guide, but it does set up a major plot point. You will still be able to get it, I think. The line between mythos and one-off is far more blurry on this show than one would expect. Though it's worth noting that the show lightens up eventually, I get your point. In Season 1, Skip 5, the non-flashbacks parts of 8, 12, 14, and 16 except for the last 2 minutes. You can also skip 18. Season 2 is the hardest for me. Only 4, 17, and 18 except for the last 5 minutes are skippable with no consequences. Watch the rest because a lot of them are fun! (Particularly 3, 5, 8, and 15). Season 3: Skip 4, 14, and 15. This season is heavily, heavily serialized. (If you're pressed for time, you can use the timecodes for 1 and 3). Season 4: Skip episode 16 outside of its ending because it is pretty poor. Other than that, there are some so-so standalones (thinking of episodes 6 and 8), but they touch on the mythology in some way and aren't bad anyway. Season 5: You have to watch it all, except for episode 6--but I quite like that one. Hm, ok. I can probably just check Doux Reviews or the aptly named "Pedia of Interest" for synopses of the plotty episodes I missed, I think. I tend to ramble a lot online, but it is really that hard to make a skip guide for this show! The X-Files would be much easier.
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 14, 2020 21:24:26 GMT -8
Matt's guide skips too much, I think. The Babylon 5 rule mostly applies--the more important, the better--but the show has this annoying habit of stringing important plot points in the background of otherwise unimportant, lackluster chapters. Old Reddit's skippable episode list is much better, I think. From Season 1, skip Judgement (1x05), Foe (1x08), Legacy (1x12), Wolf and Cub (1x14), and Risk (1x16). From Season 2, skip.... Triggerman (2x04). Possibly Proteus (2x17) as well. Season 3 is easy. Skip Reasonable Doubt (3x04--no doubt Jeremy remembers this one and shudders), Provenance (3x14), and Last Call (3x15). Seasons 4 and 5 do not really have any that are easily skippable. I think the skip guide you listed is a good one (except that it skips Masquerade (2x03)). As it says, if you enjoyed the pilot, you will probably enjoy a lot of the standalones. I barely remember "Reasonable Doubt." Was that an especially bad one? Season Three was the show's best season, to the point that I ended up enjoying even some of its lesser episodes. I actually liked "Provenance" and "Last Call" a lot, even though neither serves much purpose. I remember being very bored by "Risk," though. Thoroughly dull and pointless. That gets my vote for worst episode of the series. In general, I found the Season Two standalones to be stronger than those in Season One. I would certainly recommend skipping most of the non-essential episodes in the first season, though it sounds like Flame has a better idea of which episodes qualify as "essential" (I've only seen the show once).
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Nov 15, 2020 9:58:24 GMT -8
Matt's guide skips too much, I think. The Babylon 5 rule mostly applies--the more important, the better--but the show has this annoying habit of stringing important plot points in the background of otherwise unimportant, lackluster chapters. Old Reddit's skippable episode list is much better, I think. From Season 1, skip Judgement (1x05), Foe (1x08), Legacy (1x12), Wolf and Cub (1x14), and Risk (1x16). From Season 2, skip.... Triggerman (2x04). Possibly Proteus (2x17) as well. Season 3 is easy. Skip Reasonable Doubt (3x04--no doubt Jeremy remembers this one and shudders), Provenance (3x14), and Last Call (3x15). Seasons 4 and 5 do not really have any that are easily skippable. I think the skip guide you listed is a good one (except that it skips Masquerade (2x03)). As it says, if you enjoyed the pilot, you will probably enjoy a lot of the standalones. I barely remember "Reasonable Doubt." Was that an especially bad one? Season Three was the show's best season, to the point that I ended up enjoying even some of its lesser episodes. I actually liked "Provenance" and "Last Call" a lot, even though neither serves much purpose. I remember being very bored by "Risk," though. Thoroughly dull and pointless. That gets my vote for worst episode of the series. In general, I found the Season Two standalones to be stronger than those in Season One. I would certainly recommend skipping most of the non-essential episodes in the first season, though it sounds like Flame has a better idea of which episodes qualify as "essential" (I've only seen the show once). Reasonable Doubt was the lawyer one. Convoluted, but still somehow boring as hell. That and Provenance were S3's only weak points from my POV. Not a fan of Risk either, but even then....it still doesn't sink to the lows of other genre tv. None of it actively irritates me.
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Post by otherscott on Nov 17, 2020 8:25:49 GMT -8
Let's get through some TV Updates
Ramy - I really enjoyed the first season of a man trying to find the connection and happy place between his religion and the lifestyle he actually wants for himself, and how empty he feels without that religion and how insufficient he feels as a part of being a Muslim. The second season got considerably darker, to the point it wouldn't feel out of place as a Bojack season, but without the levity and sense of humour that prevented Bojack from being unbearably dreary. I think the issues Season 2 hits on are a little bit more well tread than Season 1, as well as being more difficult to stomach, as Ramy's religion is still part of it but it's a story that can just as easily be told without the Muslim background in a way. Still a good show and I think if it lightens up two shades it can be back to a very good show, but I was disappointed.
High Fidelity - I already know this is going to be one of those Watchmen type mini-reviews where I sound more negative on the show than I am. There's a flair to the show in both tone and form, that is somewhat unique but more importantly, very approachable and friendly. The show is ultimately built on that level of approachability that similar shows can't master to the same extent High Fidelity can. And it's important it has that, because plot-wise and character wise, there's not much going on here. I've seen a lot of praise for Zoe Kravitz in this - personally I think it's a slight miscast as Zoe brings an aura of coolness to the role that often clashes with the fact the character is a complete and utter mess. I acknowledge that it's possible that this clash is intentional, but it does occasionally bring me out of the show to wonder about the acting decision, which isn't good.
The Good Lord Bird - I anticipate I'll be watching the finale to this tonight. This is a show that in my opinion, deals much better with racial relations than a show like Lovecraft Country. It's able to play the balance between appreciating the desire and sometimes the necessity of those in the majority (white in most cases) to rise up and fight against racism, while also commenting on the negatives and the tunnel vision that can sometimes accompany the white saviour complex. The show can occasionally get a little dry, and it probably could have done just as well being 4 or 5 episodes rather than 7, but Ethan Hawke is a tremendous actor.
Fargo - I'm on the same page with Jeremy on this. It feels like a season desperately trying to create the magic of Season 2, and not quite getting there. It's missing that moral center for all the sliminess of humanity to circle around that I have always thought really forms the backbone of Fargo's plot structure. It also doesn't have any tonal clashing, like at all, which is what the movie and both the first two seasons of Fargo were able to master that really made them stand out on the landscape. It's certainly not bad, as I thought points in Season 3 were (sorry JC), and it still is able to create a sense of time and place with the best of TV. There's not really anything I dislike here (maybe the casting of Chris Rock), but it's missing the things that really make Fargo click as one of the greats. I have seen the most recent episode, and it was certainly a step up on what came before.
We Are Who We Are - My favourite HBO show so far this year with a bullet. It's so well structured, so well directed, you can't look away even when things are slow or routine. I love the slice of life type of story-telling, and this show does such a good job showing you the exploration that comes with growing up, without the need for statements or labels that people want to accompany that journey of self discovery. It also runs the full gamut of emotions throughout the show, really immersing you in that teenage headspace where all feelings are at their most extreme. A full warning the the first episode is off-putting (though I liked it and I know people who loved it and think it's a step above the rest of the show), but the show gets away from that. I highly recommend this one.
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 17, 2020 12:14:53 GMT -8
Once again, I can already tell that our respective "Best Shows of the Year" lists are going to look very different this year. Not that there's anything wrong with that! (Except for people who believe that Scott's taste in television is better than mine. There's something wrong with that.)
I agree with your critiques of the current Fargo season, though I have a different perspective on the core issue. I think the season does have a moral center, albeit a rather generic one, in the character of Ethelrida. The issue is that the story is too wide and sweeping for any single center to take hold. The first three seasons of Fargo each had 4-5 actors in the regular cast. This new season has seventeen regular castmembers, spread across a half-dozen plotlines that are all fighting each other for screentime. As a result, no specific storyline leaves enough of an impression to give that full Fargo feel. By expanding the scope, the season reduces the intimacy of character that made the series such a memorable and distinctive series in the early going. It's still good... but it isn't Fargo.
The most recent episode is probably the strongest of the season, less due to the stylistic choices than the singular focus on character and, as a result, atmosphere. Reminded me a bit of "The Law of Non-Contradiction" from Season Three - not necessarily vital to the ovearching storyline, but a refreshing standalone episode in a season that needed a good change of pace.
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Post by otherscott on Nov 17, 2020 14:16:26 GMT -8
I think this year are different lists may be because we are watching completely different shows. I haven't gotten around to stuff like The Boys and I'm not even sure I'd heard of Teenage Bounty Hunters until you started raving about it, and you're going to rank both of those very high. But I think there's actually a lot of good TV this year, and because of more time to watch TV due to no commute (working from home), and general reduced socialization I've been able to watch more stuff.
In terms of the show we are both watching, Fargo, I agree Etherilda is intended to be the moral center, but at the same time she has had maybe 3 scenes in the last 4 episodes? That's not enough screentime for your "moral center" character to be relevant.
You are right that this season is particularly sprawling, but season 2 was also fairly sprawling with its two gangs, plus Peggy and Ed, plus the Solversons. And I think that was one of the best seasons of anything in the decade. I think the problem is the sprawl has been a little more uncontrolled this season, without a real ability to focus on the more interesting characters and storylines. The show also just hasn't been able to go to anywhere near the same tone that the movie and Season 1 had. It's like there's no one major issue, but everything this season is just about 20% off what Fargo is when it's completely clicking.
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 17, 2020 15:26:37 GMT -8
Another issue I have with this season of Fargo is that it feels more hewed to the real world than Fargo should. It grapples with serious issues around race and law enforcement, features rougher language than prior seasons (due to FX's brave new uncensoring policies), and features violence that is less tongue-in-cheek than the show we're used to. Again, I probably wouldn't mind these things in a vacuum, but Fargo has established a unique tone unlike anything else on TV, and it's a bit of a comedown to see the series take a more standard route. I think this year are different lists may be because we are watching completely different shows. I haven't gotten around to stuff like The Boys and I'm not even sure I'd heard of Teenage Bounty Hunters until you started raving about it , and you're going to rank both of those very high. But I think there's actually a lot of good TV this year, and because of more time to watch TV due to no commute (working from home), and general reduced socialization I've been able to watch more stuff. I think we've been watching a lot of different shows for a couple of years now (as you may have heard, there has been a lot of TV made in recent years). And yes, like you, I've had a lot more time to watch TV this year, as I continue to work from home, and see no sign of that changing just yet. Teenage Bounty Hunters will probably not rank very high for me this year - it's certainly fun, but not Top 10-worthy. I mostly started watching it out of sheer curiosity, and found myself oddly enamored by it. The Boys will likely make my Top 10, though I preferred S1 over S2. (And yes, people, you should definitely watch The Boys.) All in all, it's still been a good year for TV. Due to outside forces, though, I'm anticipating some road bumps in 2021... We'll have to see how production develops in the current mess of a world.
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