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Post by ThirdMan on Mar 30, 2021 17:34:59 GMT -8
Yeah, Jeremy, I'm just burnt-out on murky-grey CGI/green-screen-driven blockbusters. They spend so much money on them, and yet so much is a blurry grey mess. One of the reasons that last Mad Max film was so refreshing was that it was mostly set in daylight, really allowing you to appreciate the cinematography and stunt choreography. Too many other blockbusters throw murky carnage at you, and it just doesn't register. Plus, the majority of dialogue in the ZSJL is plot exposition, which does none of the actors any favours. I'm sure it's more rewarding for hardcore DC fans who are looking for all of the obscure references., but it's really just a rather generic "get the team together and fight a one-dimensional world-ending villain" setup. It's paced fairly well for a 4-hour movie, but most of the characters don't have any personality traits that makes them stand out in a crowded blockbuster marketplace.
I also think Warner Bros. giving in to the incels and trolls who willed this film into existence (through harassment, and other dubious measures) will ultimately prove harmful in the long-run. I'm glad it exists for Snyder's sake, but certainly not for their sake.
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Post by Jeremy on Mar 30, 2021 20:20:32 GMT -8
Understood, I've never been a fan of murky and lens-filtered action films either. And as folks can glean from the last few years, I'm not much of a Zack Snyder fan (for the above reasons, plus the fact that his films are far too long and navel-gazing).
And in a vacuum, I can attest that the Snyder Cut is not a very good movie. Most of the characterizations are pretty routine, there is far too much slo-mo action (you could shave off at least thirty minutes of runtime by playing everything at normal speed), and the film has more endings than Return of the King. It really only stands tall in comparison to the banal and colorless two-hour actioner that screened in theaters in 2017. But there are merits, such as better characterizations for the heroes, especially Cyborg, and even the slightest shred of character development for the villain (if only by making him serve as the proxy for another one-dimensional villain).
And on those merits... I found it engrossing. I was never interested in getting the Snyder Cut released, but now that it's available, I'm glad. It's the rare time a filmmaker gets to put his personalized auteurial thumbprint on a major superhero flick, without executive notes or studio interference. And the fact that DC is willing to take that leap, even if confined to a streaming service, is encouraging. Would Disney/Marvel ever pull a similar stunt, if they found themselves in such a situation? I think not.*
As for the toxic fans, yes, obviously screw them. But as with many online movements, I think the Internet exaggerates their influence. There were plenty of mainstream nerds, including public figures like Kevin Smith and Robert Kirkman, encouraging DC to let Snyder's original vision free. The trolls may like to think they were responsible for getting the film released, but there were plenty of others who supported the film's release without resorting to vitriol and harassment.
*For what it's worth, I would pay an inordinate sum of money to see the unfinished Lord/Miller cut of Solo. But Disney has probably burned the negatives so they could use the shelf space for more Baby Yoda dolls.
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Post by ThirdMan on Mar 31, 2021 12:07:15 GMT -8
I should say that I didn't really find the film hard to get through, which is worth noting, given that it's FOUR HOURS LONG. I suppose it's fine for what it is: it's just that what it is isn't particularly unique, in the overall scheme of things.
And I can barely remember the 2017 cut, though this cut did remove what I thought was the biggest laugh in the original version: that sequence where The Flash is pushing a family in a truck to safety, and looks sideways to see Superman carrying an entire apartment building. At any rate, the new cut did allow the ensemble of characters more breathing room, but I kind of feel like Cyborg was the only one who got that much more definition. Visually, yeah, there's more slo-mo, and the sky is gray instead of red during the big action climax (which is a lateral creative adjustment, at best).
And I've no doubt that the toxic DC fans weren't necessarily that big of a segment of the people asking for the new JL cut, but you can rest assured that they're gonna think they were, and continue to harass and threaten WB execs and artists in the future, because they got their way this time.
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Post by Jeremy on Apr 1, 2021 5:46:43 GMT -8
It's probably the longest film I've ever seen, start-to-finish. (It even edges out the extended version of Gone with the Wind by a few minutes.) It doesn't feel like it drags much, though I suspect that's in part because I was already familiar with the basic story beats from the theatrical version, so I was able to focus more on the film's technical aspects.
And I can see now that Ray Fisher wasn't being dramatic in saying that Whedon and the WB execs gave him the short shrift - he's essentially the emotional core of Snyder version, whereas he was barely given any depth or purpose in the theatrical version. Still baffling why the studio chose to cut and reshoot so much of the film - obviously they weren't going to put a 242-minute film on the big screen, but they botched a real chance to make the film a cohesive touchstone for the DCEU.
Anyway, I know a lot of folks are now motivated to convince WB to "Release the SnyderVerse" or "Release the Ayer Cut" of Suicide Squad, but DC definitely wants to move past the early stumbles and focus on new stuff. For the record, I think there's still potential for a good cinematic universe, the bloated and nonsensical Wonder Woman 1984 notwithstanding. DC doesn't have any long-term plans, but they seem more willing to let directors do their own thing than Marvel is. Also interesting that they're not boxing themselves in with PG-13 ratings (as evidenced by Birds of Prey and James Gunn's upcoming Suicide Squad sequel).
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Apr 1, 2021 16:55:28 GMT -8
It's probably the longest film I've ever seen, start-to-finish. (It even edges out the extended version of Gone with the Wind by a few minutes.) It doesn't feel like it drags much, though I suspect that's in part because I was already familiar with the basic story beats from the theatrical version, so I was able to focus more on the film's technical aspects. And I can see now that Ray Fisher wasn't being dramatic in saying that Whedon and the WB execs gave him the short shrift - he's essentially the emotional core of Snyder version, whereas he was barely given any depth or purpose in the theatrical version. Still baffling why the studio chose to cut and reshoot so much of the film - obviously they weren't going to put a 242-minute film on the big screen, but they botched a real chance to make the film a cohesive touchstone for the DCEU. Anyway, I know a lot of folks are now motivated to convince WB to "Release the SnyderVerse" or "Release the Ayer Cut" of Suicide Squad, but DC definitely wants to move past the early stumbles and focus on new stuff. For the record, I think there's still potential for a good cinematic universe, the bloated and nonsensical Wonder Woman 1984 notwithstanding. DC doesn't have any long-term plans, but they seem more willing to let directors do their own thing than Marvel is. Also interesting that they're not boxing themselves in with PG-13 ratings (as evidenced by Birds of Prey and James Gunn's upcoming Suicide Squad sequel). I mean, it gets points for being marginally less abysmal than the 2017 cut. It's still quite bad from where I'm sitting.
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Post by Jay on Apr 11, 2021 20:25:53 GMT -8
I'm through about seven or eight episodes of The Americans, does this show get any less horny over time? James Bond would blush.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Apr 12, 2021 8:49:28 GMT -8
I'm through about seven or eight episodes of The Americans, does this show get any less horny over time? James Bond would blush. Nope. I think it has the most sex scenes per episode of any cable drama not named Euphoria.
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Post by Jeremy on Apr 12, 2021 11:26:39 GMT -8
Really? Been some time since I watched the first season, but I think the later seasons dial it back. Part of the issue may stem from the fact that the writers made the marital strife between Philip and Elizabeth a key point in Season One, and the best way to generate conflict on that front was by pairing them with other bed partners. The show mostly moves beyond that in later seasons (and improves as a result).
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Apr 12, 2021 13:41:01 GMT -8
Really? Been some time since I watched the first season, but I think the later seasons dial it back. Part of the issue may stem from the fact that the writers made the marital strife between Philip and Elizabeth a key point in Season One, and the best way to generate conflict on that front was by pairing them with other bed partners. The show mostly moves beyond that in later seasons (and improves as a result). Yeah, probably. There's still plenty of sex in it right to the end, which to be fair does make sense as one of the KGB's most common tools. Jeremy's right though--the soapy marital strife is significantly dialed back in later seasons, and the show is all the better for it. Though it will never be one of my personal favorites or anything, it's definitely one of the better dramas of recent times, rarely mind-blowing but almost never less than very good. It might fall below Mad Men and The Sopranos, but that's hardly a damning indictment. I think you'll enjoy it, Jay--especially considering S1 is probably its second worst season. I wish it had been shorter though--I could see a much tighter 3/4 seasons landing much higher on my favorites list.
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Post by Jay on Apr 12, 2021 18:18:54 GMT -8
I've been hoping it gets better because this first season here... they're making moves that really only have impact when the characters are better established, such as the marital issues and betrayal, or the "testing" they have to go through. It's not really coming together yet for me but I'm willing to give it a shot.
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Post by Jay on Apr 12, 2021 19:48:10 GMT -8
I hate to double-post myself but one bit that I wanted to praise about The Americans, the kids are probably the most realistically written as kids that I've seen on television. Usually they're either prodigy levels of clever or double down on petulance.
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Post by Jeremy on Apr 12, 2021 20:14:41 GMT -8
Yeah, the kids - particularly Paige - are one of the show's stronger points. (I'd argue that the Elizabeth/Paige relationship is the strongest aspect of the series, though the show takes a couple of seasons to realize that.)
All in all, while I don't think the first season of The Americans is bad, there's nothing that particularly stands out about it, particularly considering the time it was made. Had it premiered ten years earlier, it would feel fresh and new alongside all the other antihero dramas of the early Aughts; by 2013, it was covering well-trod ground. Fortunately, the show significantly improves with Season Two. (With some of these improvements suggested, believe it or not, by the network president! Studio execs have their moments...)
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Apr 13, 2021 5:32:17 GMT -8
Yeah, the kids - particularly Paige - are one of the show's stronger points. (I'd argue that the Elizabeth/Paige relationship is the strongest aspect of the series, though the show takes a couple of seasons to realize that.) All in all, while I don't think the first season of The Americans is bad, there's nothing that particularly stands out about it, particularly considering the time it was made. Had it premiered ten years earlier, it would feel fresh and new alongside all the other antihero dramas of the early Aughts; by 2013, it was covering well-trod ground. Fortunately, the show significantly improves with Season Two. (With some of these improvements suggested, believe it or not, by the network president! Studio execs have their moments...) It's fine. The first season is just fine. If I remember correctly, Paramount execs made good suggestions to Rick Berman and Brannon Braga during the production of Star Trek: Enterprise. They thought making a prequel was a horrible idea. Too bad they weren't listened to.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Apr 14, 2021 16:29:32 GMT -8
Hey gang.
So despite my very low expectations for The Nevers - it's actually pretty good so far. Not perfect, but the weakest parts of the pilot are mostly because as a pilot episode it needs to explain the premise... over and over again... and also there being twelve zillion characters approximately. But there's a ton of genuinely gorgeous imagery in it, and there were several moments where I was like "oh dude that's sick," so like, definitely way better than I was expecting.
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Post by Jeremy on Apr 15, 2021 19:41:11 GMT -8
It's a decent pilot episode, albeit rather long (over 70 minutes) and - due to its sprawling cast - feels a bit unfocused. I'm curious to see how the later episodes develop; the common criticism appears to be that the show tries to do too much, with very little of it clicking even after several episodes. (This problem is compounded by the fact that the guy who laid all the groundwork for the show's mythos jumped ship before the first season was even complete, so it's unclear how much the other writers know or plan to use the original plans.)
I do find it vaguely amusing that HBO has pulled Whedon's name from all the marketing, and are hoping the show can survive without what was previously its hottest selling point. Guess we'll see.
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