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Post by Jeremy on Apr 24, 2021 18:16:07 GMT -8
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier had its moments - particularly when it came to the action scenes and the banter between its two leads - but was a disappointment overall. A six-hour movie is preferable to the 13-hour sludges that Netflix produced a few years back, but the show still felt bloated and unwieldy, starting out too slow and ending too abruptly.
There are interesting ideas here about race and patriotism and the post-Blip MCU, but a lot of the themes felt disconnected, like they were in desperate need of a cohesive base. The show tries to give its chief villain some depth and real-world relevance (a la Killmonger or Mysterio), but her motives never full jell, and the actress portraying her isn't especially charismatic. A lot of events in this series seem to occur because the plot - as in, the larger MCU franchise - demanded it, rather than because it evolves organically from the characters or situations.
Had the finale stuck the landing, I could have passed the show off as a decent if flawed addition to an ever-burgeoning universe. But... it didn't. The final episode is a clumsy, cloying exercise in plot mechanics, trying haphazardly to tie up a lot of loose ends regardless of whether they made sense with the rest of the show. It seems that outside factors were partly to blame for the show's issues (the original scripts involved a pandemic and vaccine shipment; these had to be quickly rewritten and reshot), but it doesn't justify the poorly served characters.
This isn't Thor: The Dark World-level bad, but it's easily one of the weakest productions that Marvel Studios has yet released.
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Post by ThirdMan on May 3, 2021 10:42:30 GMT -8
I'm partway through Season 2 of David Simon's The Deuce. It's rich in character and period detail, like most of his other work, and is thus fairly engrossing. Of course, it's about the sex industry in New York in the 70s (prostitutes, pimps, porn stars, nightclubs, bars, etc.), so it's gonna be too racy for more sensitive viewers. At any rate, James Franco is solid in (literal) twin roles, and Maggie Gyllenhaal gives what is quite possibly the best performance of her career, as a self-supporting (no pimp) prostitute who eventually moves into a producer/director role in porn films (where she tries to bring some female POV "artistry" to it). You can tell this show is very well researched by Simon, with an emphasis on how the NYC cops would go through the motions in dealing with the situation, before ultimately forcing the sex-trade workers off the streets, while taking payoffs to provide "protection" for more controlled indoor environments (massage parlours, etc.).
Apparently the series completed its run at the end of Season 3, with a total of 25 episodes, so this isn't too much of a time commitment for me. I might jump in on Lovecraft Country -- which Sepinwall seemed to really like, and may be a one-and-done limited series -- next.
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Post by otherscott on May 10, 2021 5:33:42 GMT -8
I watched about 5 episodes of The Deuce and really couldn't get it to grab me, it typically takes a lot for a TV show to be a little too dry for my tastes but sometimes Simon can get there for me.
In terms of Lovecraft Country, the pilot is pretty decent but afterwards it becomes one of the more poorly written "prestige shows" I can recall. Which isn't to say everything is bad, I like what it's doing thematically and the acting is very good, but it just needed better editors or something with the actual scripts. It doesn't help that I'm not really much of a pulp person, and Lovecraft Country is clearly a show with a bit of a pulp background. I would argue that it's a show that got a considerable "timely themes critics bump" as well.
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Post by ThirdMan on May 10, 2021 12:22:46 GMT -8
I could see folks finding The Wire too dry, but I didn't find that to be the case with this show. I thought most of the cast had pretty big, well-defined personalities, to be honest. It actually grabbed me right away, though the pilot had more visual scale than most episodes that followed (more shot on soundstages with a smaller budget, I imagine). To me, Simon's projects often feel more "lived-in" and authentic than most other shows. But I suppose they do have more of an analytical bend to them, which can translate for some as a level of detachment.
Haven't started Lovecraft Country. In terms of critical reception, I imagine, subject-matter-wise, it was probably riding the coattails of Lindelof's Watchmen, a bit. Tried Euphoria, because I generally like Zendaya in other things I've seen her in, but couldn't get through the first episode. Stylistically, it just didn't work for me.
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Post by Jay on May 11, 2021 19:43:12 GMT -8
I'm nearly at the end of season four of The Americans. A few quick thoughts: 1) The drama has been solid throughout, taking advantage of the fact that neither side knows quite what the other is up to. There aren't many shows that exploit as much the plausible as the actual in their tension. 2) The show is kind of male gaze-y. The example that actually had an effect on the plot (briefly) was that recording of the fellows talking about Martha as though she were an absolute dog when she's not that bad looking and had attracted the interest of one of their co-workers prior. Just about every other woman in the show is unusually attractive and capable of getting whomever to do her bidding at the slightest notice, even without all that much interaction or chemistry between the two of them. It's bewildering as you think about it. And nevertheless, nearly all any of them talk about are the men in their lives.
3) D'ya think they cast Keri Russell and made her wear wigs of all lengths and colors just to thumb their noses at the long standing rumor that a haircut torpedoed Felicity?
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Post by Jeremy on May 11, 2021 20:25:30 GMT -8
I always assumed that casting Keri Russell was an in-joke referring to the time there was a slow day in the Felicity writers' room and JJ Abrams jokingly pitched the idea that Felicity should become a globe-hopping, wig-wearing spy, and this in turn became the inspiration for Alias.
(Side note, Alias wigs >>>>> Americans wigs. Fight me at your peril.)
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Post by Incandescence 112 on May 12, 2021 10:03:14 GMT -8
I'm nearly at the end of season four of The Americans. A few quick thoughts: 1) The drama has been solid throughout, taking advantage of the fact that neither side knows quite what the other is up to. There aren't many shows that exploit as much the plausible as the actual in their tension. 2) The show is kind of male gaze-y. The example that actually had an effect on the plot (briefly) was that recording of the fellows talking about Martha as though she were an absolute dog when she's not that bad looking and had attracted the interest of one of their co-workers prior. Just about every other woman in the show is unusually attractive and capable of getting whomever to do her bidding at the slightest notice, even without all that much interaction or chemistry between the two of them. It's bewildering as you think about it. And nevertheless, nearly all any of them talk about are the men in their lives.
3) D'ya think they cast Keri Russell and made her wear wigs of all lengths and colors just to thumb their noses at the long standing rumor that a haircut torpedoed Felicity? 1)--Yes. So refreshing to have a Cold War story that's not heavy-handed. 2)--Balanced against that though....it's pretty ballsy to have the female lead as unsympathetic as Elizabeth is. And the Elizabeth/Paige dynamic is, as noted in the Best of the Decade article, the best part of the series. Even in the snoozefest that is Season 5. 3)--That's my headcanon now.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on May 12, 2021 10:42:42 GMT -8
(Side note, Alias wigs >>>>> Americans wigs. Fight me at your peril.) That's a very low bar, lol.
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Post by Jay on May 13, 2021 10:46:04 GMT -8
.... 2)--Balanced against that though....it's pretty ballsy to have the female lead as unsympathetic as Elizabeth is. And the Elizabeth/Paige dynamic is, as noted in the Best of the Decade article, the best part of the series. Even in the snoozefest that is Season 5. I'm curious to see what S5 is like as it's just on the horizon now and each season has gotten better all the while. Yet I know it's regarded as the least of the seasons outside of maybe one. To expand on what I meant, I absolutely agree that it's a ballsy move (hmm, female lead, "cansy"? "titsy?") to have Elizabeth be so locked into the mission above all else that she hardly seems real at times. She preaches that this is all for the greater good and yet barely has any humanity at moments. It's a very compelling character type! And yet... The show seems to want to consciously moderate some of the kneejerk reactions one could have. Post-S2, I can imagine a viewer going "Sandra's a bitch for joining EST and then running off with a new man, leaving Stan all alone and eventually leaning on Henry as a substitute son." I think that they tried to work through it by sending Stan, then Phillip, then Elizabeth to EST as well (I never expected to be talking so much about EST in the year 2021), but the early returns would have you sympathetic towards Stan even while acknowledging his flaws of being a workaholic who got involved with his agent. Sandra is admirable for how she stands her ground, but has no such development where you would feel like you could see her side of things. This repeats on a few different levels and in a few different areas. Phillip is perpetually acting like Dad of the Year even when Elizabeth kicks him out and holds him to a double standard. Martha is at times pushy and baby-crazed. Claudia is undeniably a colder and less feeling handler than Gabriel is. The team's third handler arguably sets up the catastrophe of S2, albeit largely off stage. Entire plotlines revolve around Nina and multiple characters' desires for her and yet whatever she seems to want is unclear (Anton Baklanov arguably gets more development, and yet what we know of him is basically that he loves both his son and extramarital sex). The Kimmy/Phillip dynamic is something of a middle-aged fantasy where the older guy can still seem cool to the younger girl. Even Paige, whom I do like, sort of mystifies me in that she goes to the youth group for a social connection and yet the girl she met on the bus who told her about the group completely and utterly disappears after setting that plot element in motion. Her telling the pastor what her parents were up to is maybe justified, but it also damages the family dynamic irreparably and provides incentive later for the pastor's wife to get Crazy and Emotional and Threatening to Make a Scene. And that doesn't even touch the first two episodes of S3. The allegiances developed over the whole KGB vs FBI war are ambiguous and complex. It's a shame that the male / female dynamics aren't anywhere close to that.
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Post by otherscott on May 14, 2021 10:35:34 GMT -8
I definitely don't think the female characters are less sympathetic on the show than their male counterparts. I think Martha and Nina in particular are two of the most sympathetic characters on the show, Paige is remarkably well done for a teenage girl (a role that television has historically struggled with), and I could be talked into Elizabeth being the overall best character on the show.
One thing I think The Americans really pushes back on and tries to subvert is the idea of the woman always being the more emotional, soft hearted gender. Obviously this is most clear with the Philip/ Elizabeth dichotomy, but you see a lot of emotion with Stan as well. I think that's a lot of what you're seeing here. For instance a show like Mad Men or Breaking Bad or The Sopranos have these more emotionally connected characters in the spouse roles to counteract their more sociopathic husbands. And at least for me, though not a widespread public opinion obviously, in terms of actual sympathy I had a lot more for Betty (even though she's a child) and Skyler than I did for Don or Walt. Carmela, similarly, though much more muted sympathy. In the Americans, Philip is more emotional and he seems more humane, but is he better than Elizabeth? Is he more sympathetic than Elizabeth? I'm not sure.
Suffice to say, I don't think The Americans is poor at male-female dynamics. I think it is somewhat unique in how it handles them, and part of that uniqueness is how much colder the women are than general fiction. But I don't think the reaction to The Americans was ever people rooting for the men and against the women because of how they were portrayed.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on May 16, 2021 15:30:52 GMT -8
I definitely don't think the female characters are less sympathetic on the show than their male counterparts. I think Martha and Nina in particular are two of the most sympathetic characters on the show, Paige is remarkably well done for a teenage girl (a role that television has historically struggled with), and I could be talked into Elizabeth being the overall best character on the show. One thing I think The Americans really pushes back on and tries to subvert is the idea of the woman always being the more emotional, soft hearted gender. Obviously this is most clear with the Philip/ Elizabeth dichotomy, but you see a lot of emotion with Stan as well. I think that's a lot of what you're seeing here. For instance a show like Mad Men or Breaking Bad or The Sopranos have these more emotionally connected characters in the spouse roles to counteract their more sociopathic husbands. And at least for me, though not a widespread public opinion obviously, in terms of actual sympathy I had a lot more for Betty (even though she's a child) and Skyler than I did for Don or Walt. Carmela, similarly, though much more muted sympathy. In the Americans, Philip is more emotional and he seems more humane, but is he better than Elizabeth? Is he more sympathetic than Elizabeth? I'm not sure. Suffice to say, I don't think The Americans is poor at male-female dynamics. I think it is somewhat unique in how it handles them, and part of that uniqueness is how much colder the women are than general fiction. But I don't think the reaction to The Americans was ever people rooting for the men and against the women because of how they were portrayed. Yeah, Jay criticized Elizabeth's characterization as too inhumanly loyal to be believed....but I think it's logical that the type of woman who'd agree to live her life in a hostile foreign country and kill on a seemingly daily basis would be a fanatical ideologue like Elizabeth.
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Post by Jay on May 16, 2021 17:44:17 GMT -8
They have started to touch on some of it, in that the last one I saw, she talked about growing up in a bombed-out Smolensk and that the camaraderie in rebuilding shaped her worldview. They've doled out backstory sparingly for those two but it's been good when we've had it.
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Post by Jay on May 25, 2021 12:22:42 GMT -8
I'm now lurching into the final season of The Americans. S5 was kind of a let down in scale (going from nukes and biological weapons to.... WHEAT, was going to be a bit anticlimactic regardless), but I think that it handled the social and character drama well. It's one of the challenges of fiction that something like S5 is probably more realistic to what spies do than say, James Bond or the 24 franchise, but it doesn't make for riveting viewing without some help. There would be an inclination to build up FROM such a plot, but it was an interesting choice to put it in there with the character dynamics more established. I have to poke at stuff though and one of the things that frustrated me was that in S1, they were working in tandem with another regional agent, and in S2, they were familiar with another Directorate S family in the area and now, we have Phillip and Elizabeth racking up frequent flier miles to Topeka. The "WHO TAKES CARE OF THESE CHILDREN?" question is papered over by Stan's influence as gregarious 1950s dad-neighbor and Paige's self-sufficiency, but it's still weirder than it probably needed to be. The shift and time skip to the final season was abrupt in many senses (mawwiages! BEBES!), but seems to be a natural conclusion for the series and one that they can generate some good tension from if done right. My only other comment right now is that I hope Peter Gabriel sent the creators a thank you note and acknowledgement of #1 fan status.
I'm also concurrently running through Castlevania and will probably drop some remarks into the Western Animation thread once I finish, but man is the frame rate wonky in the earlier parts of the season.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on May 25, 2021 13:06:12 GMT -8
I'm now lurching into the final season of The Americans. S5 was kind of a let down in scale (going from nukes and biological weapons to.... WHEAT, was going to be a bit anticlimactic regardless), but I think that it handled the social and character drama well. It's one of the challenges of fiction that something like S5 is probably more realistic to what spies do than say, James Bond or the 24 franchise, but it doesn't make for riveting viewing without some help. There would be an inclination to build up FROM such a plot, but it was an interesting choice to put it in there with the character dynamics more established. I have to poke at stuff though and one of the things that frustrated me was that in S1, they were working in tandem with another regional agent, and in S2, they were familiar with another Directorate S family in the area and now, we have Phillip and Elizabeth racking up frequent flier miles to Topeka. The "WHO TAKES CARE OF THESE CHILDREN?" question is papered over by Stan's influence as gregarious 1950s dad-neighbor and Paige's self-sufficiency, but it's still weirder than it probably needed to be. The shift and time skip to the final season was abrupt in many senses (mawwiages! BEBES!), but seems to be a natural conclusion for the series and one that they can generate some good tension from if done right. My only other comment right now is that I hope Peter Gabriel sent the creators a thank you note and acknowledgement of #1 fan status.
I'm also concurrently running through Castlevania and will probably drop some remarks into the Western Animation thread once I finish, but man is the frame rate wonky in the earlier parts of the season.
For all that I'm not a big S5 fan, the final ' Goodbye Yellow Brick Road' montage is great. Not to spoil anything, but S6 doesn't necessarily fix S5's pacing problems even in hindsight. So S5 for me isn't necessary table-setting for the grand finale, it's more an interesting experiment that happens to be a bit dull. There aren't many seasons of tv that luxuriate in exhaustion and misery quite as much--and Dyatkovo, one of the series' absolute best hours, pushes that to the extreme. Stretching it out over 13 episodes was a bit much, I think.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on May 26, 2021 21:20:32 GMT -8
I'm now lurching into the final season of The Americans. S5 was kind of a let down in scale (going from nukes and biological weapons to.... WHEAT, was going to be a bit anticlimactic regardless), but I think that it handled the social and character drama well. It's one of the challenges of fiction that something like S5 is probably more realistic to what spies do than say, James Bond or the 24 franchise, but it doesn't make for riveting viewing without some help. There would be an inclination to build up FROM such a plot, but it was an interesting choice to put it in there with the character dynamics more established. I have to poke at stuff though and one of the things that frustrated me was that in S1, they were working in tandem with another regional agent, and in S2, they were familiar with another Directorate S family in the area and now, we have Phillip and Elizabeth racking up frequent flier miles to Topeka. The "WHO TAKES CARE OF THESE CHILDREN?" question is papered over by Stan's influence as gregarious 1950s dad-neighbor and Paige's self-sufficiency, but it's still weirder than it probably needed to be. The shift and time skip to the final season was abrupt in many senses (mawwiages! BEBES!), but seems to be a natural conclusion for the series and one that they can generate some good tension from if done right. My only other comment right now is that I hope Peter Gabriel sent the creators a thank you note and acknowledgement of #1 fan status.
I'm also concurrently running through Castlevania and will probably drop some remarks into the Western Animation thread once I finish, but man is the frame rate wonky in the earlier parts of the season.
For all that I'm not a big S5 fan, the final ' Goodbye Yellow Brick Road' montage is great. Not to spoil anything, but S6 doesn't necessarily fix S5's pacing problems even in hindsight. So S5 for me isn't necessary table-setting for the grand finale, it's more an interesting experiment that happens to be a bit dull. There aren't many seasons of tv that luxuriate in exhaustion and misery quite as much--and Dyatkovo, one of the series' absolute best hours, pushes that to the extreme. Stretching it out over 13 episodes was a bit much, I think. I may have said this before, but I think S5 got bagged on so much despite being (IMO) one of the better seasons of the show because in the period between season 4 (summer 2016) and season 5 (summer 2017), Russian espionage suddenly entered the zeitgeist again for... reasons... which compounded critical buzz for the show and made it all the weirder when what they tuned in and got a twelve-minute dialogueless exhuming scene instead of Boris & Natasha wish fulfillment. Consider the Mischa plot, where he tries and fails to immigrate to the US to reunite with his family and gets unceremoniously turned back. Or "Dyatkovo," one of the best episodes of the show, where Elizabeth's rah-rah "bash the fash" fervor turns into horror real quick. Not really what audiences wanted to see in 2017.
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