Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Aug 21, 2017 18:17:00 GMT -8
I'll be curious to see if any of the actresses from his shows come out of the woodwork to tell their sides of the story. This is why I'm withholding judgment. Infidelity is... okay, I'm not withholding judgment. Joss Whedon is a dick and cheating on your romantic partner is wildly and unambiguously dishonest. I don't think it's anything more than that, at least, not from the evidence in front of us. I'll happily condemn him if it turns out that (for example) he killed off Cordelia because Charisma Carpenter refused to have sex with him. (Which I very much doubt.)
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Post by Zarnium on Aug 21, 2017 18:54:07 GMT -8
I think the show that may suffer the most in the public eye is Dollhouse, actually, for pretty obvious reasons. I've defended the show and Joss Whedon in the past against unflattering allegations that I thought to be unfounded, but some of what Kai Cole says about him casts doubt on his motives.
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Post by ThirdMan on Aug 21, 2017 19:59:26 GMT -8
Well, Dollhouse is probably his least-well-known property, so whatever will be, will be.
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Post by Jeremy on Aug 22, 2017 4:12:38 GMT -8
There were several storylines and developments in Joss' other shows as well that seemed to fly in the face of feminism. But we usually ignored those instances (or considered them a brief "change of pace") because the good stuff in his shows always outweighed the bad.
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Post by Zarnium on Aug 22, 2017 9:16:11 GMT -8
Well, Dollhouse is probably his least-well-known property, so whatever will be, will be. It's a shame, because Dollhouse is a good show. I've previously dismissed the supposed mysogyny and exploitiveness of the concept to be an unavoidable aspect of featuring the mind-imprinting technology, because that's how it would really be used, and the show doesn't shy away from that while simultaneously keeping most of the unsavory events tastefully off-screen. However, I can't really blame anyone for reading ill-intent into it anymore. So, there goes all of the fascinating philosophical explorations and some of the best acting I've seen in my life. The show was already on thin ice, even fewer people are going to want to give it a chance now.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Aug 22, 2017 11:11:54 GMT -8
Well, Dollhouse is probably his least-well-known property, so whatever will be, will be. It's a shame, because Dollhouse is a good show. I've previously dismissed the supposed mysogyny and exploitiveness of the concept to be an unavoidable aspect of featuring the mind-imprinting technology, because that's how it would really be used, and the show doesn't shy away from that while simultaneously keeping most of the unsavory events tastefully off-screen. However, I can't really blame anyone for reading ill-intent into it anymore. So, there goes all of the fascinating philosophical explorations and some of the best acting I've seen in my life. The show was already on thin ice, even fewer people are going to want to give it a chance now. I'm not sure this is the case. Dollhouse is one of the shows where a large part of what makes the show so fascinating is how the metatextual issues of the show mirror the show itself: e.g., it's a show about the way mass culture reduces women to archetypes and sex objects, but Fox advertised the show by forcing Eliza Dushku in the same archetypal, sexualized fashion the show went to such great efforts to deconstruct. (More specific example: "Man on the Street" got a lot harder to watch after Michelle McNamara's death.) In that regard, Joss's dipshittery is just another layer of metatextual irony.
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Post by Zarnium on Aug 22, 2017 11:35:36 GMT -8
There's also the interpretation that Topher is a self-loathing author avatar for Joss, which makes more sense now than it ever has before.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Aug 22, 2017 13:26:56 GMT -8
There's also the interpretation that Topher is a self-loathing author avatar for Joss, which makes more sense now than it ever has before. That too!
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Post by Zarnium on Aug 22, 2017 15:28:25 GMT -8
I like this article I found, Don't Let The Claims Against Joss Whedon Ruin 'Buffy' For You. Something that really hasn't been talked about as much as it should be, both now and throughout the entire time Buffy's been around, is that there were several female writers on the show who deserve as much credit as Whedon for making the show what it is. It also happens to underscore why this revelation doesn't affect my enjoyment of the show all that much, but why I and other fans are so troubled about Car Boys as a product. Television is an inherently collaborative endeavor, and it rarely relies too heavily on one person. It's also intended to exist apart from its creators, who aren't really visible in the finished product. Car Boys, on the other hand, is a bunch of unscripted banter between two likeable people who were close friends. You watch it because you like the people who made it, and you enjoy their (relatively) candid comments as they play off each other. It's kind of ruined if you know that a), one of the hosts was engaged in secret unsavory activities, and b), the rapport between the two of them is now ruined because of it. You're all probably tired of hearing me rant about it, but goddamn, I'm pissed about this. Like, it's just sad that so many glowing reviews and analyses of the show now have disclaimers on them from the authors expressing their disgust with the situation.
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Post by Jeremy on Aug 22, 2017 16:33:42 GMT -8
Yeah, Buffy was the product of way more than just one guy, and it's influence on both feminism and television can't be retroactively damaged. I believe the series will be fine. People will continue to call themselves Buffy fans; you'll just stop hearing them refer to themselves as "Whedonites."
I do wonder what the fallout will be for Whedon himself, though. I believe he's still filming Justice League at the moment, and DC probably has him contracted to finish the film. But it's questionable whether they'll keep him on to direct Batgirl, or if he'll end up making that WWII film he's been writing.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Aug 22, 2017 17:55:40 GMT -8
I do wonder what the fallout will be for Whedon himself, though. Based on the last time a prominent male celebrity was revealed to have made lewd comments about his female coworkers, his days as a big figure in Hollywood will be over, and he'll have to take the consolation prize of the U.S. presidency.
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Post by Jay on Aug 22, 2017 18:55:32 GMT -8
I do wonder what the fallout will be for Whedon himself, though. Based on the last time a prominent male celebrity was revealed to have made lewd comments about his female coworkers, his days as a big figure in Hollywood will be over, and he'll have to take the consolation prize of the U.S. presidency. He's already met the standard for twitter usage, or so I hear.
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Post by Zarnium on Aug 22, 2017 19:06:32 GMT -8
Is there any widely-used platform that's sparked more problems than Twitter? I've always thought that encouraging people to make short statements without any room for details or nuance is a bad idea.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Aug 22, 2017 19:18:32 GMT -8
Is there any widely-used platform that's sparked more problems than Twitter? I've always thought that encouraging people to make short statements without any room for details or nuance is a bad idea. Twitter is basically Proverbs 17:28 dot com.
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Post by Jeremy on Aug 22, 2017 19:41:58 GMT -8
I've actually been having fun on Twitter lately. If you haven't seen the CT Twitter page lately, it mostly consists of me making random one-liners about TV, film, and anything else that pops into my head. I try to avoid politics or anything that could cause controversy, and keep things in the spirit of good fun. It helps spread the word about the site, or so I'm hoping. Still, Twitter can be a pretty toxic place if you really immerse yourself in its ugly side - everyone seems to be an extremist, no one has the space to properly develop thoughts, and the most obnoxious people have the loudest voices. I think that, pound for pound, Reddit has been home to more inbred hostility, but you all know my feelings on Reddit.
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