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Post by Zarnium on Nov 9, 2017 20:51:42 GMT -8
Gee, what's left at this point? At this rate, I'm certain every TV show has at least one sexual predator working on it
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 9, 2017 21:19:41 GMT -8
I'm praying that's not the case, especially since there are over 450 shows on TV these days.
Given how quickly all these stories are coming out, it may seem like the entertainment world is chockful of predators. But I don't think that's the case - some of them have committed actual crimes; others have just made a few inappropriate comments. (It seems like Weiner falls into the latter category, for example.)
As to why this sort of thing goes on in the industry - well, I'm not a fan of the phrase "toxic masculinity," but I think it applies here. Some men, when given fame and power (particularly in a place as sexually exploitative as Hollywood), respond in gross and at times even horrific ways.
But the important thing is that these stories are finally coming to light, and that women (and men) in the industry are no longer afraid to speak out.
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Post by Zarnium on Nov 10, 2017 4:59:08 GMT -8
The one I find the most troubling to wrap my head around is Tambor's case. Since there's only one allegation against him, that makes it more likely it could be false or exaggerated, which increases the chance that it's not really going to get any closure one way or another. And I'd like to think that at least one alleged perpetrator might actually be innocent, but I also don't like to doubt victims' stories.
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 10, 2017 6:54:55 GMT -8
Statistically, it's not impossible that a handful of the accusers are fabricating (or at least exaggerating) their stories, even if many are not. So people have to use their best judgment. Jeremy Piven, for example, completely denies the accusations made against him by multiple women. Whether or not he's telling the truth, his statement does touch upon how difficult it is to make proper judgments when so many others are being revealed as sickos.
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Post by Zarnium on Nov 10, 2017 7:21:11 GMT -8
The problem is that it's rare, but not completely unheard of for a claim to be false, or for the definition of assault to be stretched a bit. Like what happened with Max Temkin of Cards Against Humanity fame, an old college girlfriend alleged that he raped her years earlier, but she never pressed charges or revealed any details, to my knowledge, so there wasn't really anything to go on. That didn't stop a lot of people from being really angry that he denied wrongdoing and publicly defended himself in a mature manner, though.
There was also an incident at my former university that made national news where a woman alleged that her date raped her in public... but there was video evidence and around a dozen witnesses that suggests it was consensual, and the woman eventually dropped charges. That didn't stop the incident from being used as an "always believe victims" story for a long time.
So, in cases where there's only one allegation, I try be somewhat nuetral... but then, I don't like it when false flags are used as an excuse to avoid investigation, either, and I'm always afraid I'm contributing to that.
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 10, 2017 12:59:44 GMT -8
I try not to believe these sorts of allegations right away, since there have been a number of high-profile cases where the accusations were proven false, and I do think that benefit of the doubt is important. Still, it's also important that these claims are properly investigated. We don't want men having their lives ruined by false accusations, but we also don't want to breed an environment where women think no one will believe them.
(As a side note, I can't help wondering about the jokes that will be made at the next Oscar ceremony.)
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Post by ThirdMan on Nov 10, 2017 14:58:01 GMT -8
...but I can't but help but worry that someday it's going to be "Chris Pratt is a serial rapist, there goes Parks and Rec!" or something else I care about. Nope, Pratt's a born-again Christian and closet Trump supporter. So basically, almost as bad.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Nov 10, 2017 22:11:26 GMT -8
Louis CK and Jeffrey Tambor? In the past twenty-four hours? God, who's next? George Takei.
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Post by Zarnium on Nov 11, 2017 6:09:05 GMT -8
So, what exactly is the statute of limitations on stuff like this?
What Takei is being accused of is pretty bad, but if it happened, it may have been due to a misunderstanding rather than predatory intentions, it happened a long time ago, and is likely an isolated incident. How much room do we give someone to grow past mistakes that they've made in the past?
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Post by unkinhead on Nov 11, 2017 13:03:55 GMT -8
The problem is that it's rare, but not completely unheard of for a claim to be false, [Citation Needed] I'm pretty much completely skeptical about all of these claims. Especially since it's essentially a trend at this point. The Harvey Weinstein stuff I pretty much believe, everything else is kinda "hmm" territory at this point. You have to understand that there are plenty of people in the world who would be more than willing to make a false accusation for whatever motive they may have, especially on the internet...especially when it's trending...statistically speaking it would make sense that there would be more false claims than true claims with regards to a specific event given the total population of potential accusers, everyone in the pool is eligible to make a false claim. I'm not saying any of these claims are false by any means...I'm just definitely not saying they're true. Also some of the claims are kind of iffy in the first place. Kevin Spacey made sexual advances on someone, it made him uncomfortable...so he...left? There's definitely something to be said about the fact that he was 14, but as far as sexual assault goes though that's very not that. Louis CK asked people if he could masturbate in front of them? And then if they said yes he would do so. Okay, fucking weird and gross, but also not criminal. (Apparently some say he did so without their consent, which, if the case, is obviously fucked up) idk, just wanna advocate that there's definitely sufficient reason not to get outraged at any name that might come up in an article in the next coming weeks.
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 11, 2017 19:01:48 GMT -8
Gee, what's left at this point? At this rate, I'm certain every TV show has at least one sexual predator working on it Andrew Kreisberg was just suspended by The CW for inappropriate behavior with female staffers, which ropes in all four shows of the Arrowverse. I'm trying to sift through the names and weigh each case individually, but... there's too many at this point. And the number just keeps rising. It's also becoming difficult to avoid conflating cases of lewd comments with cases of actual physical assault. At this point, I'm just hoping the authorities know how to weigh all these accusations.
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Post by Zarnium on Nov 11, 2017 20:27:19 GMT -8
Andrew Kreisberg was just suspended by The CW for inappropriate behavior with female staffers, which ropes in all four shows of the Arrowverse. I see he's billed as the "Executive Producer," does he actually write for any of the shows? I'm a lot more bothered by how the behavior of writers and actors colors their work. I thought this article was interesting, though. Shunning and scrapping everything that an accused person has been involved in doesn't really do anything to help the situation. I mean, it's one thing to be too horrified to watch The Cosby Show, but cancelling a series that hasn't even began production yet just because Louis C.K. was a producer on it seems pretty bonkers.
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 11, 2017 21:06:26 GMT -8
Kreisberg is co-creator of all four shows, has written a lot of early Arrow episodes, and I believe is the showrunner on The Flash. (Although the DC shows are notorious for constantly changing showrunners.)
As for studios distancing themselves from accused celebrities - I do think there's a case to be made for the "too soon" clause when the celebrity in question is only tangentially involved in the production. I don't know if TBS is going to scrap The Cops for good, but they'll probably try to sever its ties with CK as best they can. Things are kind of hectic in the entertainment world right now, and no one wants to risk fanning the flames.
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Post by Zarnium on Nov 11, 2017 21:26:09 GMT -8
Remember when whitewashing was the big Hollywood controversy? Can we have that back now? I'd rather have that.
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Post by ThirdMan on Nov 12, 2017 16:43:05 GMT -8
Kevin Spacey made sexual advances on someone, it made him uncomfortable...so he...left? There's definitely something to be said about the fact that he was 14, but as far as sexual assault goes though that's very not that. There's actually been a pattern of behaviour with Spacey. Apparently just a few years ago, he stuck his hands down the pants of an 18-year-old fan at a bar and grabbed his genitals. The fan got the hell out of there the moment Spacey went to the restroom. And there was reportedly plenty of stuff going down at his theater company over the years.
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