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Post by ThirdMan on Sept 12, 2022 12:31:53 GMT -8
For the life of me, I cannot imagine any child - in 1995 or any other year - watching Lightyear and being inspired enough to crave an action figure of the title character. I can understand this perspective, but alas, I'm not a child. It's not an accurate representation of what a film would be like in that era (I'll assume, in Andy's world, it's live-action, because the humans basically look like Toy Story humans, I suppose), but in a vacuum, I thought it told a compelling-enough story ("sour" is fine by me, though I'd say it's mostly a pretty good-natured film). Not as thematically ambitious or emotionally-layered as the better Toy Story films, but fine as a side-piece. There's nothing wrong with using internal trauma as a springboard to tell a story about aging and mortality, and one's "purpose" in life. I completely understand why the film's themes wouldn't be very palatable to the average kid, though, thus the low box-office receipts. People who single the film out as "woke" simply because it features a lesbian couple (who don't even share an onscreen kiss) can fuck right off, though, because they're shitty homophobes. As for the characters, Buzz is kind of a square (in a relatively-endearing way), but the supporting group of characters are eccentric enough to get by (and they get a fair amount of mileage out of Sox's antics). And the animation is pretty impressive.
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Post by Jeremy on Sept 12, 2022 17:35:25 GMT -8
There's nothing inherently wrong with telling a story about trauma and internal grief, but Pixar has been leaning on it almost as a crutch at this point. It doesn't feel earned here, and it doesn't fit with the sense of whimsy and wonder the film's sci-fi setting is trying convey. (Not that there's much in the way of sci-fi, either - barely any exploration or grand spectacle to the story.) Also, enough with the "surprise villain" reveal - Lightyear is one of the worst Disney offenders in this regard.
I guess the film is watchable enough when viewed in a bubble, disassociated from the larger Toy Story franchise (although without that connection, it would most certainly never have gotten made in the first place). It just still feels like a really subpar version of the film it's trying to be. Buzz is a flimsy protagonist (even leaving aside the fact that he ultimately fails his mission), and the references to Star Wars et al. feel less like homages than lazy ripoffs. Great animation, a few funny lines from SOX, and one good action scene - the spaceship chase near the end of the second act - just can't compensate.
Also, I've heard a few people claim there was no onscreen same-sex kiss in the movie, but there definitely was at my theater (it's only a half-second smooch, but it's there). Maybe some places had it edited out? I dunno. In any case, I don't think it had any real impact on the film's poor box-office performance, certainly not as much as other factors (poor word-of-mouth, confusing franchise connections, people opting to wait for the Disney+ release).
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Post by ThirdMan on Sept 12, 2022 17:50:17 GMT -8
I think the film is trying to be what it's trying to be, and if this or that person likes or dislikes it, so be it.
(Hey, maybe a brief lesbian kiss happened in the film, but it was so quick that I didn't notice it. My point still stands about those complaining about wokeness because the film features a homosexual character.)
And I think there's more than enough reasonably-large-scale action and adventure in the film's running time. Yeah, they don't go to a million different planets, but that was never a promise the film offered to begin with. It's middle-of-the-pack Pixar, but certainly more watchable, to me, than around half of Pixar's filmography at this point.
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Post by Jeremy on Sept 12, 2022 19:20:38 GMT -8
Oh, I'd easily call it one of Pixar's worst movies. It's better than Cars 2 and Good Dinosaur, at the least, but just so devoid of excitement or innovation. Not even their best film of 2022 - I wasn't enamored with Turning Red, but it had a distinctive style and brand of humor, and clearly came from a place of passion, rather than a place of "extend X franchise by whatever means necessary."
(Speaking of which, apparently we're now getting a sequel to Inside Out? With a teenage, presumably hormonal Riley? Sure, why not, fingers crossed. And bring back Bing Bong.)
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Sept 12, 2022 20:04:46 GMT -8
I'm enjoying WWDITS a lot this season, and it's still doing what it does best. That said, this will probably be the first time since the show's debut where it will not make my Top 10 at end of year. The series is still clever and funny, but largely for the same reasons as earlier years, and it's settled into its groove enough that I'm content to keep watching without expecting it to outdo itself every season. Plus, there have been a lot of other great shows airing in 2022, some of which are more interesting to watch each week and which leap more immediately to the forefront when I think of the current season's cream of the crop. Maybe it's the lack of Colin Robinson that got to me. For whatever reason the humor just fell flatter for me this year, and I do struggle to explain why. I suppose that's why I'm not in comedy.
This has been quite a good year, hasn't it? Better Call Saul, Barry, The Righteous Gemstones, Severance, The Bear. On the animation side, there's Primal, Undone, and Kaguya-Sama, and Harley Quinn. Really, I think it's been the best in years. Your top 10 list should be an interesting one this year.
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Post by otherscott on Sept 13, 2022 5:12:50 GMT -8
Welcome to the Mad Men train, Incandescence! It's not the best show of all time for nothing!
I'm also really impressed by TV this year. There's some really good Apple TV+ stuff with Severance and Black Bird and FAM, I've never been a big fan of Star Trek but Strange New Worlds is honestly tremendous. Been really enjoying The Bear so far as well but I'm only a few episodes in.
I've been a little disappointed with the longer running shows this year. I still need to see the last half season of Better Call Saul which I'm sure will be great, despite me never really being the biggest BCS fan in the world. I am a huge Atlanta fan and the season started strong and seemed to run out of steam really quickly. I think it just started trying to be too deep for its own good at times and got away from those setpieces and oddball situations it does really well. Barry was a lesser disappointment, I thought it hit a real peak in the middle of Season 2 and hasn't really been able to find that spot again.
Succession just won the best drama Emmy which proves that HBO has too much voting power at the Emmys right now. I know people really like Succession but the shows plotting and storylines just aren't all that good, especially in season 3.
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Post by ThirdMan on Sept 13, 2022 10:01:34 GMT -8
Oh, I'd easily call it one of Pixar's worst movies. It's better than Cars 2 and Good Dinosaur, at the least, but just so devoid of excitement or innovation. Not even their best film of 2022 - I wasn't enamored with Turning Red, but it had a distinctive style and brand of humor, and clearly came from a place of passion, rather than a place of "extend X franchise by whatever means necessary." (Speaking of which, apparently we're now getting a sequel to Inside Out? With a teenage, presumably hormonal Riley? Sure, why not, fingers crossed. And bring back Bing Bong.) I think I've barely seen any of the Cars movies ( a few scenes here and there), but they look COMPLETELY unappealing to me (not a car person, can't stand NASCAR, characters look lame, etc.), so those and The Good Dinosaur would probably be my bottom four, were I to actually watch them (I've seen Dinosaur). I believe I haven't seen Luca yet either, but I might give it a look. Didn't care at all for A Bug's Life (Antz was much better, even though I was lukewarm on that as well). I really like the Toy Storys, Ratatouille, both Incredibles films (obviously the first more than the second, though), WALL-E, Up, and Inside Out. A lot of the rest are interchangeable, quality-wise, for me. Soul was pretty good, but most of their recent output has been pretty middling, so I could rate Lightyear slightly below or above them without batting an eye. I'm not nearly as fond of the Finding Nemos/Dorys as some folks seem to be (just don't care for most of the characters involved), and the same goes for the Monsters, Inc. franchise. Not saying I'd rate Lightyear above all four of those, but they're not nearly as far apart, quality-wise, for me as they would be for you.
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Post by ThirdMan on Sept 13, 2022 10:14:08 GMT -8
I'm enjoying WWDITS a lot this season, and it's still doing what it does best. That said, this will probably be the first time since the show's debut where it will not make my Top 10 at end of year. The series is still clever and funny, but largely for the same reasons as earlier years, and it's settled into its groove enough that I'm content to keep watching without expecting it to outdo itself every season. Plus, there have been a lot of other great shows airing in 2022, some of which are more interesting to watch each week and which leap more immediately to the forefront when I think of the current season's cream of the crop. Maybe it's the lack of Colin Robinson that got to me. For whatever reason the humor just fell flatter for me this year, and I do struggle to explain why. I suppose that's why I'm not in comedy. Colin Robinson was present: he was just a bit more energetic and inquisitive this year. His long-winded, overly-detailed nature remained firmly intact, though. Heh. I actually thought the vampire community appreciating the kid's old-timey song-and-dance numbers for their creepy exploitative value was a pretty funny joke, and I generally loved the vampire nightclub gimmick, and the wraiths' involvement (they were kind of adorable, in their way). The only real complaint I have about this past season is they were leaning a bit more on profanity-for-profanity's sake, when they could just more cleverly articulate something, minus the "shock" value of swearing. ______________________________________________________________ Re: the Emmys, is it weird that Succession and Ted Lasso winning all those Emmys makes me feel LESS compelled to check them out?
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Post by Jeremy on Sept 13, 2022 18:12:15 GMT -8
Barry was a lesser disappointment, I thought it hit a real peak in the middle of Season 2 and hasn't really been able to find that spot again. Succession just won the best drama Emmy which proves that HBO has too much voting power at the Emmys right now. I know people really like Succession but the shows plotting and storylines just aren't all that good, especially in season 3. I thought this latest season of Barry was excellent, maybe the show's best yet. Definitely one of the year's highlights for me. I expect our Best of Year picks will look quite different once again. (Which is fine! It's great to have different opinions! So long as we acknowledge mine are more correct.) Succession's continued strength at the Emmys is seemingly borne of the same structure that let Game of Thrones keep winning Best Drama long after it lost its luster. The current Emmy voting rules (implemented since 2015) effectively make it a popularity contest, and no one has their finger in as many pies across the TV Academy like HBO does. Re. the Emmys themselves, I didn't watch the full ceremony last night (NBC's decision to schedule it on Monday clashed with my own poor schedule), but I was happy about the Limited Series wins (Seyfried and White Lotus), less enamored by the Ted Lasso wins, and continually indifferent to all things Succession. Kenan was fine and Norm MacDonald should have been in the In Memoriam. I think I've barely seen any of the Cars movies ( a few scenes here and there), but they look COMPLETELY unappealing to me (not a car person, can't stand NASCAR, characters look lame, etc.), so those and The Good Dinosaur would probably be my bottom four, were I to actually watch them (I've seen Dinosaur). I believe I haven't seen Luca yet either, but I might give it a look. Didn't care at all for A Bug's Life (Antz was much better, even though I was lukewarm on that as well). I really like the Toy Storys, Ratatouille, both Incredibles films (obviously the first more than the second, though), WALL-E, Up, and Inside Out. A lot of the rest are interchangeable, quality-wise, for me. Soul was pretty good, but most of their recent output has been pretty middling, so I could rate Lightyear slightly below or above them without batting an eye. I'm not nearly as fond of the Finding Nemos/Dorys as some folks seem to be (just don't care for most of the characters involved), and the same goes for the Monsters, Inc. franchise. Not saying I'd rate Lightyear above all four of those, but they're not nearly as far apart, quality-wise, for me as they would be for you. I really love some of the older Pixar films like Nemo and Monsters Inc. - partly out of nostalgia, but also partly because they remain extremely funny, and incredibly tightly written and structured, even when viewing them as an adult. I also don't hate the Cars series like a lot of people seem to - Cars 2 is unquestionably bad, but 1 and 3 are decent wistful dramas (if a bit short on laughs). I find Pixar films to be some of the most compulsively rewatchable movies ever (I've probably seen the first two Toy Storys more than any other films in my life), but Lightyear... just doesn't give me any compulsion to revisit, even when compared to some of their (admittedly flawed) offerings of the 2010s. And yes, I would recommend Luca. It's nothing brilliant, but it's a sweet and great-looking film with some sincere Miyazaki influences.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Sept 14, 2022 20:05:28 GMT -8
Welcome to the Mad Men train, Incandescence! It's not the best show of all time for nothing! I'm also really impressed by TV this year. There's some really good Apple TV+ stuff with Severance and Black Bird and FAM, I've never been a big fan of Star Trek but Strange New Worlds is honestly tremendous. Been really enjoying The Bear so far as well but I'm only a few episodes in. I've been a little disappointed with the longer running shows this year. I still need to see the last half season of Better Call Saul which I'm sure will be great, despite me never really being the biggest BCS fan in the world. I am a huge Atlanta fan and the season started strong and seemed to run out of steam really quickly. I think it just started trying to be too deep for its own good at times and got away from those setpieces and oddball situations it does really well. Barry was a lesser disappointment, I thought it hit a real peak in the middle of Season 2 and hasn't really been able to find that spot again. Succession just won the best drama Emmy which proves that HBO has too much voting power at the Emmys right now. I know people really like Succession but the shows plotting and storylines just aren't all that good, especially in season 3. I am on the Mad Men train, full steam ahead. Also, "The Wheel" is better than "The Suitcase", and it's not even close.
Interesting take on Strange New Worlds. For me, it's fine, but it's a reversion to the Voyager model of trying to wring every last drop out of the TNG formula. Which is fine, of course, but I can't help but want more. I want the true successor to Deep Space Nine. Which remains the pinnacle of Trek.
I agree that I'm not the biggest fan of Better Call Saul out there, and much like The Americans, I feel that it had a tendency to spin its wheels for no real reason, and the Mike/Gus stuff never quite added up due to the lack of tension. However, I feel like both of those flaws were remedied as time went on. Seasons 3 and 6 were really strong, and 4 and 5 have a lot of really good stuff in there as well.
I'm skeptical of whether Succession really is a deep show about abuse, or simply a raunchy comedy like Veep that mainly consists of creative insults. I suppose I'll have to watch for myself.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Sept 14, 2022 20:06:33 GMT -8
Maybe it's the lack of Colin Robinson that got to me. For whatever reason the humor just fell flatter for me this year, and I do struggle to explain why. I suppose that's why I'm not in comedy. Colin Robinson was present: he was just a bit more energetic and inquisitive this year. His long-winded, overly-detailed nature remained firmly intact, though. Heh. I actually thought the vampire community appreciating the kid's old-timey song-and-dance numbers for their creepy exploitative value was a pretty funny joke, and I generally loved the vampire nightclub gimmick, and the wraiths' involvement (they were kind of adorable, in their way). The only real complaint I have about this past season is they were leaning a bit more on profanity-for-profanity's sake, when they could just more cleverly articulate something, minus the "shock" value of swearing. ______________________________________________________________ Re: the Emmys, is it weird that Succession and Ted Lasso winning all those Emmys makes me feel LESS compelled to check them out? That does tend to happen as comedies go on, doesn't it? The comedy just gets more and more broad, continually reaching for lower hanging fruit. It's inevitable, I suppose.
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Post by ThirdMan on Sept 15, 2022 9:12:39 GMT -8
It wasn't so much the "low-hanging fruit" factor as some lines involving profanity not feeling like they would genuinely come from a particular character's mouth. But that's a thing that can happen as they cycle different staff writers in and out, as well: some "get" the characters' specific voices more than others. And the show has always been over-the-top, and sort of broad. I don't think it was any more so this year. One thing about The Creature That Came From The Chest-Cavity Of The Corpse of Colin Robinson is that he did often test the other characters' patience as much as Colin, but the difference was, he wasn't intending to do so. So maybe you're really just into sadism, and didn't get as much of that this season, with regular Colin on the backburner?
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Post by ThirdMan on Sept 16, 2022 10:10:17 GMT -8
Well, two episodes into Season 4 of Atlanta, and they've (mostly) stayed focused on the core group of characters. I was wondering if they were doing some sort of parallel thematic thing with a guest character in episode two's subplot, but all was revealed by the end. Anyways, I'm glad to see that Darius has his wits about him again this season, because he was mostly in an aloof drug haze in Season 3.
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Post by otherscott on Sept 17, 2022 8:25:43 GMT -8
I am on the Mad Men train, full steam ahead. Also, "The Wheel" is better than "The Suitcase", and it's not even close. Interesting take on Strange New Worlds. For me, it's fine, but it's a reversion to the Voyager model of trying to wring every last drop out of the TNG formula. Which is fine, of course, but I can't help but want more. I want the true successor to Deep Space Nine. Which remains the pinnacle of Trek.
I agree that I'm not the biggest fan of Better Call Saul out there, and much like The Americans, I feel that it had a tendency to spin its wheels for no real reason, and the Mike/Gus stuff never quite added up due to the lack of tension. However, I feel like both of those flaws were remedied as time went on. Seasons 3 and 6 were really strong, and 4 and 5 have a lot of really good stuff in there as well. I'm skeptical of whether Succession really is a deep show about abuse, or simply a raunchy comedy like Veep that mainly consists of creative insults. I suppose I'll have to watch for myself.
I don't think saying "it's not close" is fair, they're both top 5 episodes of the series. I think that Mad Men is a bit like Lost in that Season 1 feels so different from the rest of the series, and isn't really about what the rest of the series is about, but it's such a well constructed series of episodes that it may be the best season of the series despite the fact it doesn't carry the same thematic strengths as the later seasons. And part of that construction is how well the finale wraps up that mystery of who Don Draper is and what he is about. My personal favourite episode of the series is "In Care Of" and I actually think "Nixon vs Kennedy" is just as good as "The Wheel." I don't know if you're being fair to Strange New Worlds by a) reducing it down to the formula, which to me is probably a stronger formula than what I've seen so far from DS9 (haven't watched a ton of it) in terms of really putting that effort into character investment early. I also am not sure you're being fair in terms of comparing DS9 at its strongest, which was not season 1, to a Strange New Worlds show that's still setting itself up to being built to last. Each episode was really strong and taught me a lot about the characters and stakes of the world they are in. For a 10 episode first season of what is supposed to be a long running show, that's a very strong start. Shows should invest in characters, and they should 100% be willing to go more episodic than serialized. I think Succession is more of a drama about abuse than a comedy, particularly in Season 2, but this season felt like repetitive wheel spinning to me. Jeremy, I think we'll have some pretty good similarities in our top 10 list unless you find a way to put a lot of Marvel shows on there. I've still got things to get through though.
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Post by Jeremy on Sept 17, 2022 16:52:14 GMT -8
I've been watching all the Marvel shows this year and thus far, not a single one of them is getting close to my Top 10. There's only one superhero show at this point in 2022 that I'd comfortably call one of the year's best shows, and it ain't from Marvel.
As for Deep Space Nine vs. Strange New Worlds, I'd say it's fair to hold SNW to a slightly higher standard due to the changing face of television - DS9 wasn't very good when it premiered, but TV in 1993 was a lot more restrictive in storytelling than TV in 2022, so the way DS9 built up a sprawling mythology over seven seasons, fighting studio pressures at every turn, is pretty impressive. I haven't seen a lot of SNW yet, but it seems fine? Not bad or anything, but not really what strikes me as groundbreaking drama in the current era. (I'm pretty lukewarm on the new Trek shows overall, although Lower Decks has shaken off its early growing pains and has become pretty funny.)
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