[REPOST] And it may happen again...
May 16, 2017 20:29:50 GMT -8
Post by Mail Robot on May 16, 2017 20:29:50 GMT -8
[AS YOUR CORDIAL SERVANT, I MUST APOLOGIZE FOR MY EXTENDED ABSENCE. LIKE MANY OF MY FELLOW MACHINES, I WAS RECENTLY STRUCK BY RANSOMWARE. RANSOMWARE IN THIS CASE BEING AN ACRONYMIC REPRESENTING THE PHRASE "ROLLING ALONG NETWORK, STUMBLED OVER MISPLACED WIRE, ACCORDINGLY ROTATED EARTHWARDS;" ALTERNATELY, TO PARAPHRASE A NAMELESS FICTIONAL SENIOR CITIZEN, I HAD FALLEN AND I COULD NOT GET UP. PLEASE FORGIVE ME FOR MY SHAMEFUL ACQUIESCENCE TO GRAVITY.]
[THIS THREAD WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED ON OCTOBER 3, 2014.]
Jay (10/03/14)
There's been more interest in Twin Peaks as a series lately for various reasons, the Blu-Ray release, the extended and deleted cuts from Fire Walk With Me, a recent and significant anniversary passing within the show's continuity (that's classified), but perhaps... perhaps there will be more.
www.polygon.com/2014/10/3/6900787/twin-peaks-david-lynch-mark-frost
Mark Frost and David Lynch simultaneously taking to twitter to say "That gum you like is going to come back in style."
Stay tuned?
MikeJer:
If they can make a high quality continuation of the show that ties into the whole "see you in 25 years" moment... well, my squeals would echo for years to come.
[...]
Someone, elsewhere, noted that both of these tweets were published at 11:30 AM, which is the same time Dale Cooper enters the town of Twin Peaks for the very first time.
Jay:
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Zarnium (10/05/14):
I have to admit, while I didn't enjoy the show that much from what I watched, this possible news of new seasons makes me happy. It's nice to see a show that's so influential and well-loved finally get a proper continuation or resolution after so long.
Jay:
It's hard to describe my response to the news, particularly in light of the review process. So far, people have been about 50/50 as to liking the series or finding it unengaging, and the latter seem to be coming at it as fresh viewers where the former have known about it for some time. It presents some interesting conundrums as art goes: Can something be simultaneously "not for everyone" and at times, difficult to find a way in, and yet still be valuable as art? I hope that my reviews eventually demonstrate that it's more than an imaginative madness going on, but you can't really convince someone to be interested if they aren't initially. It is what it is.
As to the continuation of the series, I certainly have my reservations about it. A time skip of 25 years is a lot of material to cover, particularly for a series that, while running episodes that were meant to be circumscribed within a single day, had a lot of pieces in motion at all times. There is definitely something that scares me about trying to get back to it after all this time when so much has changed-- I don't know that the investment by the creator is exactly the same, since David Lynch was described as an absentee landlord in the second season, but it seems to occupy that same space as [i:1mhvlp8e]Firefly [/i:1mhvlp8e]where even if you succeeded, I don't think that you could really achieve resolution with the parameters you're likely to be given, and that original conception of the series is forever lost. That said, Lynch is not about resolution, never really has been, so while I would be deeply suspicious about a long-postponed revival in the hands of other autuers (Ghostbusters 3, should it ever come to pass, I fear would be to the series what Crystal Skull was to Indiana Jones), there's a weird kind of hope I have that David Lynch, if not doing right by the series, would at least do something worth talking about.
Boscalyn:
Hypothetically, assuming there's a third season, will there be an impact on your reviews? I mean, you'll suddenly be reviewing an ongoing series.
MikeJer:
This could theoretically constitute an interesting loophole in the Critically Touched reviewing system. If a full third season were to actually happen, I think what I'd suggest is to have Jay wait for this new season to end before beginning to look at its episodes. That way he'll at least have a little bit of perspective and retrospectiveness going into the new season.
Side note: I just rewatched the episode "On the Wings of Love" (2x18), and it has one of the most infectiously joyous scenes I've ever seen: (SPOILERS) at the diner when Gordon Cole can hear Shelly clearly ("MASSIVE, MASSIVE QUANTITIES [of pie] and a glass of water sweetheart, MY SOCKS ARE ON FIRE!") and Cooper starts flirting with Annie.
For a show that can be so terrifying and sad at times, it can be equally heart-warming and joyous.
Firewalkwithme:
Don't forget the music. The "Hook Rug Dance" makes this scene: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ4RMGZmLTs
MikeJer:
Yep, love that song.
Jeremy:
I'm suspicious here. The show's been off the air for a long time now, and it will have to jump through a lot of hoops if it wants to get back on the air. It could be that they're in talks, but I don't see this happening. My guess is that it's a reunion - maybe a scripted one, in a similar vein to the Psych episode "Dual Spires"; - or a short video.
It could be my suspicions are raised because a couple of years ago, Joshua Malina hinted on Twitter that they were filming a West Wing movie, and it just turned out to be a three-minute campaign ad for Bridget McCormack.
MikeJer:
Don't forget about Netflix, Jeremy. That could really change the parameters here.
Jeremy:
Netflix, Amazon Prime, Kickstarter... the possibilities grow with every year. It's just a question of whether they can finance it and get the proper cast/crew back.
Then again, maybe they're planning something completely different - maybe a reboot of sorts - which would negate the second condition.
I will not be drawn into your manipulative mind games, Mark and David!
Jay:
I think I've read various things talking about it where Lynch has come out as anti-reboot. The town is still there for him and certain things unresolved, so it doesn't make sense to start off again anew.
MikeJer:
Not only is the town still there, but Snoqualmie Falls, downtown Snoqualmie, and North Bend look pretty much unchanged from 1980. It can work.
[...]
Oh! Here are some pictures I took of the area in the last year or so:
[DEAD IMAGES]
Jay:
Indeed, having been through there many times in the last few years. The population still approximates what was supposed to be the population of Twin Peaks, and the owner of the diner used as the Double-R keeps it in its former condition, in part as a tourist pull.
(I was going to post a photo I took ~3 years ago of the Double-R, but I see that Mikejer has a lot more photos to go around!)
Jeremy:
It's the passage of time that concerns me the most. Arrested Development was off the air for seven years when they were finally revived. The Comeback is, well, coming back after nine years. Doctor Who returned after sixteen years, and was massively helped in this regard by its huge fanbase.
Twin Peaks has been off the air for twenty-three years, and it has a moderate fanbase at best.
But hey, maybe I'm sounding too pessimistic. If this is in fact a prelude to a third season, count me on board.
Also, nice pics, Mike. The one with the red lights is particularly haunting.
MikeJer:
If anyone can pull a comeback off, it would be David Lynch I think.
Jay:
Doctor Who is a little different though, since they can just plop a new actor into the role and say "oh, it's a new doctor incarnation." Most shows don't have that luxury.
Firewalkwithme:
The following information is classified!
What I would be more worried about is the re-casting of BOB because Frank Silva has already passed away. Since Cooper is BOBsessed I think there¥s pretty much no way they can resolve that narrative thread without an appearance of the couch-climbing man himself. At least to me BOB was always the scariest thing about Twin Peaks and the way he was captured in Lynch-directed episodes and "Fire walk with me" often times gave me nightmares and left me with a sickening feeling.
But I don't doubt that Lynch would be able to come up with another scary creature, knowing what he is capable of in his feature films (The bum in "Mulholland Drive", the phantom in "Inland Empire", the Mystery Man in "Lost Highway").
Oh, and Don Davis has also already passed away which is sad because Major Briggs was easily my favourite character right after Cooper
and I think the Twin Peaks Sheriff's Department would've needed his help to pass through the Lodges to get Cooper back (Briggs apparently managed it successfully to get to the White Lodge and back).
Jay:
Oh crap, I forgot Don Davis was dead too. I'm in agreement with you there, he was also probably my favorite non-Cooper (and I would add, non-Audrey) character on the show.
I'm sure they could come up with something else to fill the BOB void (less so the Mjr Briggs void), since ultimately, we know BOB, The Giant, MIKE, and The Man... are all agents of the Lodges, but there's been no sense of hierarchy or who might be running the show, if anyone.
There are other ways into the White Lodge too, perhaps. The way Catherine Martell talks about her rescue from the burning mill heavily implies some association with the White Lodge, and I think there's enough circumstantial evidence with that and other factors that might suggest the Lodges are manifestations of the same entity. This would concord entirely with the series' themes. As to WHERE the White Lodge's entrance is, there's a bit with Doc Hayward in the FWWM deleted scenes that suggests that one entrance might be Sparkwood and 21, which also makes perfect sense. It's always been there, it's just that no one was looking for it. I think that would have been one of the tasks of a season three, had it happened at the time, I just don't know if it would be part of the revival if it exists.
Jeremy:
Pete was always one of my favorite characters. RIP, Jack Nance.
Man, I don't know if I could picture Twin Peaks without these guys.
Firewalkwithme:
Hem, correct me if I¥m wrong but didn¥t Andrew Packard help out his sister after the Sawmill-fire, providing her with some kind of accomodation?
The story that she told Harry about some guadian angel fitted nicely into the mythology of the show but I always thought she was just making all that up.
Jay:
Yeah, I've wondered about that too but I think that some of the ways the she was talking about it even with the "guardian angel" bit seemed to resonate. I'd have to re-watch and re-evaluate as I get back to that point in the series, but I did watch that clip as I was working on my Pilot review and still thought there was enough there to substantiate it. Perhaps it's just that I really want the behavior of the Lodges to be somewhat capricious since it's in line with my own pet theories. Certainly, Catherine's own behavior post-return is not evidence of someone who has had a change of heart; she just torments poor Josie.
Edit to note: There was an OWL in the room where Truman went in to talk to Catherine and we all know about them owls.
Firewalkwithme:
Well, I think it can be both. Catherine¥s story can be a part of the mythology of the show and a lie to Harry. The way that scene is scored highlights this ambiguity as well. It could be seen as an overdramatization of Catherine¥s plight or a way to draw special attention to her words, making us think that maybe her experience is part of a the larger going-ons in the woods. But that¥s Peaks for ya, you never know.
[THIS THREAD WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED ON OCTOBER 3, 2014.]
Jay (10/03/14)
There's been more interest in Twin Peaks as a series lately for various reasons, the Blu-Ray release, the extended and deleted cuts from Fire Walk With Me, a recent and significant anniversary passing within the show's continuity (that's classified), but perhaps... perhaps there will be more.
www.polygon.com/2014/10/3/6900787/twin-peaks-david-lynch-mark-frost
Mark Frost and David Lynch simultaneously taking to twitter to say "That gum you like is going to come back in style."
Stay tuned?
MikeJer:
If they can make a high quality continuation of the show that ties into the whole "see you in 25 years" moment... well, my squeals would echo for years to come.
[...]
Someone, elsewhere, noted that both of these tweets were published at 11:30 AM, which is the same time Dale Cooper enters the town of Twin Peaks for the very first time.
When two separate events occur simultaneously pertaining to the same object of inquiry we must always pay strict attention!
Jay:
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Zarnium (10/05/14):
I have to admit, while I didn't enjoy the show that much from what I watched, this possible news of new seasons makes me happy. It's nice to see a show that's so influential and well-loved finally get a proper continuation or resolution after so long.
Jay:
It's hard to describe my response to the news, particularly in light of the review process. So far, people have been about 50/50 as to liking the series or finding it unengaging, and the latter seem to be coming at it as fresh viewers where the former have known about it for some time. It presents some interesting conundrums as art goes: Can something be simultaneously "not for everyone" and at times, difficult to find a way in, and yet still be valuable as art? I hope that my reviews eventually demonstrate that it's more than an imaginative madness going on, but you can't really convince someone to be interested if they aren't initially. It is what it is.
As to the continuation of the series, I certainly have my reservations about it. A time skip of 25 years is a lot of material to cover, particularly for a series that, while running episodes that were meant to be circumscribed within a single day, had a lot of pieces in motion at all times. There is definitely something that scares me about trying to get back to it after all this time when so much has changed-- I don't know that the investment by the creator is exactly the same, since David Lynch was described as an absentee landlord in the second season, but it seems to occupy that same space as [i:1mhvlp8e]Firefly [/i:1mhvlp8e]where even if you succeeded, I don't think that you could really achieve resolution with the parameters you're likely to be given, and that original conception of the series is forever lost. That said, Lynch is not about resolution, never really has been, so while I would be deeply suspicious about a long-postponed revival in the hands of other autuers (Ghostbusters 3, should it ever come to pass, I fear would be to the series what Crystal Skull was to Indiana Jones), there's a weird kind of hope I have that David Lynch, if not doing right by the series, would at least do something worth talking about.
Boscalyn:
Hypothetically, assuming there's a third season, will there be an impact on your reviews? I mean, you'll suddenly be reviewing an ongoing series.
MikeJer:
This could theoretically constitute an interesting loophole in the Critically Touched reviewing system. If a full third season were to actually happen, I think what I'd suggest is to have Jay wait for this new season to end before beginning to look at its episodes. That way he'll at least have a little bit of perspective and retrospectiveness going into the new season.
Side note: I just rewatched the episode "On the Wings of Love" (2x18), and it has one of the most infectiously joyous scenes I've ever seen: (SPOILERS) at the diner when Gordon Cole can hear Shelly clearly ("MASSIVE, MASSIVE QUANTITIES [of pie] and a glass of water sweetheart, MY SOCKS ARE ON FIRE!") and Cooper starts flirting with Annie.
For a show that can be so terrifying and sad at times, it can be equally heart-warming and joyous.
Firewalkwithme:
Don't forget the music. The "Hook Rug Dance" makes this scene: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ4RMGZmLTs
MikeJer:
Yep, love that song.
Jeremy:
I'm suspicious here. The show's been off the air for a long time now, and it will have to jump through a lot of hoops if it wants to get back on the air. It could be that they're in talks, but I don't see this happening. My guess is that it's a reunion - maybe a scripted one, in a similar vein to the Psych episode "Dual Spires"; - or a short video.
It could be my suspicions are raised because a couple of years ago, Joshua Malina hinted on Twitter that they were filming a West Wing movie, and it just turned out to be a three-minute campaign ad for Bridget McCormack.
MikeJer:
Don't forget about Netflix, Jeremy. That could really change the parameters here.
Jeremy:
Netflix, Amazon Prime, Kickstarter... the possibilities grow with every year. It's just a question of whether they can finance it and get the proper cast/crew back.
Then again, maybe they're planning something completely different - maybe a reboot of sorts - which would negate the second condition.
I will not be drawn into your manipulative mind games, Mark and David!
Jay:
I think I've read various things talking about it where Lynch has come out as anti-reboot. The town is still there for him and certain things unresolved, so it doesn't make sense to start off again anew.
MikeJer:
Not only is the town still there, but Snoqualmie Falls, downtown Snoqualmie, and North Bend look pretty much unchanged from 1980. It can work.
[...]
Oh! Here are some pictures I took of the area in the last year or so:
[DEAD IMAGES]
Jay:
Indeed, having been through there many times in the last few years. The population still approximates what was supposed to be the population of Twin Peaks, and the owner of the diner used as the Double-R keeps it in its former condition, in part as a tourist pull.
(I was going to post a photo I took ~3 years ago of the Double-R, but I see that Mikejer has a lot more photos to go around!)
Jeremy:
It's the passage of time that concerns me the most. Arrested Development was off the air for seven years when they were finally revived. The Comeback is, well, coming back after nine years. Doctor Who returned after sixteen years, and was massively helped in this regard by its huge fanbase.
Twin Peaks has been off the air for twenty-three years, and it has a moderate fanbase at best.
But hey, maybe I'm sounding too pessimistic. If this is in fact a prelude to a third season, count me on board.
Also, nice pics, Mike. The one with the red lights is particularly haunting.
MikeJer:
If anyone can pull a comeback off, it would be David Lynch I think.
Jay:
Doctor Who is a little different though, since they can just plop a new actor into the role and say "oh, it's a new doctor incarnation." Most shows don't have that luxury.
Firewalkwithme:
The following information is classified!
What I would be more worried about is the re-casting of BOB because Frank Silva has already passed away. Since Cooper is BOBsessed I think there¥s pretty much no way they can resolve that narrative thread without an appearance of the couch-climbing man himself. At least to me BOB was always the scariest thing about Twin Peaks and the way he was captured in Lynch-directed episodes and "Fire walk with me" often times gave me nightmares and left me with a sickening feeling.
But I don't doubt that Lynch would be able to come up with another scary creature, knowing what he is capable of in his feature films (The bum in "Mulholland Drive", the phantom in "Inland Empire", the Mystery Man in "Lost Highway").
Oh, and Don Davis has also already passed away which is sad because Major Briggs was easily my favourite character right after Cooper
and I think the Twin Peaks Sheriff's Department would've needed his help to pass through the Lodges to get Cooper back (Briggs apparently managed it successfully to get to the White Lodge and back).Jay:
Oh crap, I forgot Don Davis was dead too. I'm in agreement with you there, he was also probably my favorite non-Cooper (and I would add, non-Audrey) character on the show.
I'm sure they could come up with something else to fill the BOB void (less so the Mjr Briggs void), since ultimately, we know BOB, The Giant, MIKE, and The Man... are all agents of the Lodges, but there's been no sense of hierarchy or who might be running the show, if anyone.
There are other ways into the White Lodge too, perhaps. The way Catherine Martell talks about her rescue from the burning mill heavily implies some association with the White Lodge, and I think there's enough circumstantial evidence with that and other factors that might suggest the Lodges are manifestations of the same entity. This would concord entirely with the series' themes. As to WHERE the White Lodge's entrance is, there's a bit with Doc Hayward in the FWWM deleted scenes that suggests that one entrance might be Sparkwood and 21, which also makes perfect sense. It's always been there, it's just that no one was looking for it. I think that would have been one of the tasks of a season three, had it happened at the time, I just don't know if it would be part of the revival if it exists.
Jeremy:
Pete was always one of my favorite characters. RIP, Jack Nance.
Man, I don't know if I could picture Twin Peaks without these guys.
Firewalkwithme:
Hem, correct me if I¥m wrong but didn¥t Andrew Packard help out his sister after the Sawmill-fire, providing her with some kind of accomodation?
The story that she told Harry about some guadian angel fitted nicely into the mythology of the show but I always thought she was just making all that up.
Jay:
Yeah, I've wondered about that too but I think that some of the ways the she was talking about it even with the "guardian angel" bit seemed to resonate. I'd have to re-watch and re-evaluate as I get back to that point in the series, but I did watch that clip as I was working on my Pilot review and still thought there was enough there to substantiate it. Perhaps it's just that I really want the behavior of the Lodges to be somewhat capricious since it's in line with my own pet theories. Certainly, Catherine's own behavior post-return is not evidence of someone who has had a change of heart; she just torments poor Josie.
Edit to note: There was an OWL in the room where Truman went in to talk to Catherine and we all know about them owls.
Firewalkwithme:
Well, I think it can be both. Catherine¥s story can be a part of the mythology of the show and a lie to Harry. The way that scene is scored highlights this ambiguity as well. It could be seen as an overdramatization of Catherine¥s plight or a way to draw special attention to her words, making us think that maybe her experience is part of a the larger going-ons in the woods. But that¥s Peaks for ya, you never know.
