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Post by Jeremy on Nov 28, 2017 20:50:38 GMT -8
To build off my previous comment - since it's Oscar season, I've been watching a number of Best Picture winners lately, just so I can determine whether or not the Oscars are really nonsense. (I mean, of course they are. But I'm trying to figure out to what degree.) Somewhat surprisingly, though, I'm actually quite enjoying some of the recent winners.
My quick thoughts on the last five BP victors:
Argo (2012): This is a surprisingly fun and well-written film. It's a mix of historical drama, spy thriller, and Hollywood satire, and given my love of those three things individually, it was a safe bet that I'd get in on this film pretty quickly. Ben Affleck is good both in front of and behind the camera, and I was quite amused to see Scoot McNairy and Kerry Bishe play a married couple in the pre-Halt and Catch Fire days.
12 Years a Slave (2013): I read the book this was based on a few years ago, so I knew most of the story going in. Nevertheless, the film is still pretty shocking and uncomfortable to watch. There are some longueurs in the plotting, but not enough to diminish my investment. Not sure I'll be rewatching it anytime soon, but a well-done film all around.
Birdman (2014): I thought I would hate this one, given how the "single-shot" conceit smacked so blatantly of pretentiousness. And it did take me a while to get invested. But the cast is really good, and the story picks up in the second half. And yeah, I'm a sucker for Batman parodies. Sue me.
Spotlight (2015): Despite the heavy and important subject matter, I unfortunately found this film to be a near-total yawn. Flat characters, flat writing, and no emotional driving force behind the story. I appreciate that this story was told, but there had to be a more interesting way of telling it.
Moonlight (2016): It's better than La La Land, but still kind of overhyped. The cast is great (and I wanted more Mahershala!), but the story doesn't go anywhere too daring or surprising. The character development is pretty straightforward, and doesn't feel as challenging as it should. Good for one viewing, but I don't know if I'd care to see it again.
I'll be watching some older BP winners over the next few weeks. Any examples you guys think I'd be particularly interested in (or horrified by)?
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Post by ThirdMan on Nov 29, 2017 17:37:59 GMT -8
Interesting. The only area where I'd consider Spotlight flat would be in the visual department. Otherwise, I found it pretty engrossing. The characters were developed enough to serve their part of the story, and I just like the cast. I guess Spielberg's got a movie coming out this year, involving a newspaper, that'll probably be pretty topical, given all the "Fake News!" rhetoric being spewed by the the manchild-in-charge.
People can go on and on about pretense, but Birdman's just fun, which is not something that can be said about the director's other pictures. I thought the "single-shot" premise (it's really sixteen, or something) just served to highlight the hectic, fluid nature of a live production, and particularly the backstage goings-on. Most of the movie is pretty tongue-in-cheek.
Argo's enjoyable, though I wish they hadn't contrived so much of the silliness at the airport, because in real life, most of that came off without a hitch.
I assume you've seen No Country For Old Men? That's probably my favourite Best Picture winner of the past 20 years. That said, in most years (at least prior to the expansion beyond five nominees), the titles that were nominated for Screenplay, but not Picture, were more adventurous in nature.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Nov 29, 2017 17:43:33 GMT -8
I assume you've seen No Country For Old Men? That's probably my favourite Best Picture winner of the past 20 years. That said, in most years (at least prior to the expansion beyond five nominees), the titles that were nominated for Screenplay, but not Picture, were more adventurous in nature. Really? I found it to be a bit of a drag. I much prefer The Big Lebowski and Fargo.
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Post by ThirdMan on Nov 29, 2017 19:10:07 GMT -8
I'm very fond of Fargo and Lebowski (they're both classics), but NCFoM is a full-blown masterpiece. There's not a line or image out of place in that film, whereas I can nitpick a few things in the other two. Though it's got some dark humour, it's certainly not a cheerful film, by any measure, but the moment I saw it, I instantly knew it was masterful. So much is conveyed via the visuals.
What's your favourite Best Picture winner of the past 20 years?
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Nov 29, 2017 19:59:37 GMT -8
I'm very fond of Fargo and Lebowski (they're both classics), but NCFoM is a full-blown masterpiece. There's not a line or image out of place in that film, whereas I can nitpick a few things in the other two. Though it's got some dark humour, it's certainly not a cheerful film, by any measure, but the moment I saw it, I instantly knew it was masterful. So much is conveyed via the visuals. What's your favourite Best Picture winner of the past 20 years? Lord of the Rings: Return of the King. If Saving Private Ryan or The Pianist had won it might be a different story, but as it stands, it's not even that hard for me. The Hurt Locker is also excellent though.
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 29, 2017 20:54:14 GMT -8
Interesting. The only area where I'd consider Spotlight flat would be in the visual department. Otherwise, I found it pretty engrossing. The characters were developed enough to serve their part of the story, and I just like the cast. I guess Spielberg's got a movie coming out this year, involving a newspaper, that'll probably be pretty topical, given all the "Fake News!" rhetoric being spewed by the the manchild-in-charge. Spotlight just feels really simplistic, with a self-aggrandizing "church bad, media good" message that's been played way too often in modern cinema. (Granted, it's based on a true story, but still not one that warrants all the Oscar love.) I have some concerns about The Post, which looks like it could be more media back-patting wrapped up in Oscar bait. I'm hoping Spielberg proves me wrong. I watched part of No Country For Old Men a long time ago, although I don't believe I ever finished it. I need to see it again. I'm currently in middle of The Hurt Locker; I'll probably revisit NCFOM once I'm done.
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Post by unkinhead on Nov 29, 2017 23:20:14 GMT -8
You misspelled "incredibly dull". After watching Children of Men, I'm gonna call it. Inaritu and Cuaron are producers of empty spectacles with lots of pretension that substitutes actual depth....cept for Y Tu Mama Tambien. Clearly the only logical conclusion is that Mexican directors are culturally overrated as a knee jerk empathetic reaction based on the Trump Presidency and an internalized fear of being labeled xenophobic. I tried to parody myself.
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Post by guttersnipe on Nov 30, 2017 11:16:41 GMT -8
I'll be watching some older BP winners over the next few weeks. Any examples you guys think I'd be particularly interested in (or horrified by)? I'm intrigued as to the "older" there, if only because I've never known anyone who's seen Cavalcade. I'm wary of giving recommendations at the best of times, especially as I'm more clear on your feelings towards comedy and entertainment than on serious works, and here we are with a category that bears a marked dramatic skew 99% of the time. As such I'd say you'd probably love It Happened One Night more than anything, but I could also see you taking to One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, The Sting, Amadeus and All About Eve. (It isn't until I really look a list of these things that I'm reminded that Best Picture has sometimes gone to a number of my favourite directors' weakest films - Going My Way, Leo McCarey; A Man for All Seasons, Fred Zinnemann; How Green Was My Valley, John Ford; Oliver!, Carol Reed; West Side Story, Robert Wise; Gigi, Vincente Minnelli (and not even a nomination for The Band Wagon!); The Greatest Show on Earth, DeMille; You Can't Take It with You, Frank Capra; The English Patient, Anthony Minghella...) People can go on and on about pretense, but Birdman's just fun I enjoyed it a lot too; I'll never forget some of the colour saturations. What trips me up whenever I think about it though is a comment in my local cinema's brochure when they described it as "the most original Hollywood film in years". Surely it's All That Jazz, essentially?
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 30, 2017 14:49:59 GMT -8
I'm intrigued as to the "older" there, if only because I've never known anyone who's seen Cavalcade. I'm wary of giving recommendations at the best of times, especially as I'm more clear on your feelings towards comedy and entertainment than on serious works, and here we are with a category that bears a marked dramatic skew 99% of the time. As such I'd say you'd probably love It Happened One Night more than anything, but I could also see you taking to One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, The Sting, Amadeus and All About Eve. Well, I'm starting with the more recent films, and I figure I'll working my way backwards. (Currently sampling a number of titles from the '90s and '00s.) I'm indeed intrigued by some of those films you list. The problem, I expect, will be finding some of them, since many of the older films tend not to be available for streaming or broadcast. But I expect that won't be much of an issue just yet.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Nov 30, 2017 17:10:52 GMT -8
I'll be watching some older BP winners over the next few weeks. Any examples you guys think I'd be particularly interested in (or horrified by)? This is a very tough job, Jeremy. The Academy is wrong 95% of the time. You should watch best picture snubs like Tootsie or The Graduate (if you haven't already seen it, which you might have). My favorite best picture winners are The Apartment, Lawrence of Arabia, The French Connection, Unforgiven, The Silence of the Lambs, Casablanca, All About Eve, and the first two Godfather movies.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Nov 30, 2017 17:14:22 GMT -8
I'll be watching some older BP winners over the next few weeks. Any examples you guys think I'd be particularly interested in (or horrified by)? (It isn't until I really look a list of these things that I'm reminded that Best Picture has sometimes gone to a number of my favourite directors' weakest films - Going My Way, Leo McCarey; A Man for All Seasons, Fred Zinnemann; How Green Was My Valley, John Ford; Oliver!, Carol Reed; West Side Story, Robert Wise; Gigi, Vincente Minnelli (and not even a nomination for The Band Wagon!); The Greatest Show on Earth, DeMille; You Can't Take It with You, Frank Capra; The English Patient, Anthony Minghella...) Also, they robbed Pulp Fiction and The Shawshank Redemption....and gave it to Forrest Gump instead. They should have given the best picture to Zemeckis for Back to the Future.
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 30, 2017 17:50:18 GMT -8
This is a very tough job, Jeremy. The Academy is wrong 95% of the time. You should watch best picture snubs like Tootsie or The Graduate (if you haven't already seen it, which you might have). Tootsie is a really good film, although I don't know if I'd call it Best Picture-worthy. Haven't seen The Graduate. I expect I will hate a fair number of the films I'm going to watch. But I'm going in with an open mind, and hoping the Academy won't completely let me down. At the very least, this project will likely give me a good template from which to broaden my cinematic horizons.
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 30, 2017 20:35:06 GMT -8
Okay, I've split this into a new thread, because I'm humble that way.
So, quick thoughts on some other Best Picture winners I've seen in the last week or so:
The Silence of the Lambs (1991): Despite being a big fan of the Hannibal TV series, I've never sought out any of the films it's based on. But I've finally seen Silence, and it is terrific. Jodie Foster and Anthony Hopkins give great performances, the mood is dark and creepy, and the story builds slowly to a great climax. Bravo.
Forrest Gump (1994): I watched a good chunk of this film back when I was a kid, but this was my first time seeing it all the way through. While it's entertaining, and while Tom Hanks gives a likably aloof performance, I can't help wondering what the point of the story is. Is it just a satire on the progression of mid-20th century America, or an iconic recap of it with Forrest as the butt of every joke? Good thing Zemeckis knows how to keep the story moving, so those questions didn't bug me too much, but still.
A Beautiful Mind (2001): It starts out slow, but I eventually came around to this one. Part of my reluctance may have stemmed from the fact that I'd heard there was a Fight Club-style twist to the story, and I spent much of the film's first half looking for clues. But the film still caught me off-guard, and the story's increasingly disturbing turns made for a touching and effective character piece, with Russell Crowe well-cast as Nash.
The Departed (2006): Well, that was... intense. There were so many ways in which this violent, profanity-laced Scorcese epic could have turned me off, but the constant twists, as well as the terrific star-studded cast, kept me riveted to the screen. Much better than I'd expected it to be, and that Dropkick Murphys song still rules. (Also: "The rat symbolizes obviousness!")
The Hurt Locker (2009): The parts of this film worked better for me than the whole. There are some great, intense scenes showcasing the brutality (and often the mundanity) of war and US occupation. But the film at large feels overlong and at times disjointed, without a clear emotional through-line for much of its run. I did like Jeremy Renner, though.
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Post by ThirdMan on Nov 30, 2017 22:07:17 GMT -8
What trips me up whenever I think about it though is a comment in my local cinema's brochure when they described it as "the most original Hollywood film in years". Surely it's All That Jazz, essentially? It kind of reminded me of Cassavetes' Opening Night. BTW, Unk, I'm no big fan of Iñárritu in general. I don't mind parts of Amores Perros and Biutiful (for Bardem's effective performance only, really), and I like Birdman, but the rest I could take or leave. Re: what Flamepillar said, past Best Picture winners are sometimes interesting to revisit as a time-capsule sort of thing ("THAT won?!"), but as I said, some of the more interesting and provocative films tend to make it no further than the Screenplay category. For instance, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind >>>>>>>>>>>> Million Dollar Baby. Jeremy, maybe what you should watch is some of the films that were nominated for BP that most of us felt were better than the actual winners. I mean, though I liked Birdman quite a bit, The Grand Budapest Hotel is pretty much perfect.
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Post by ThirdMan on Nov 30, 2017 22:12:51 GMT -8
You misspelled "incredibly dull". There you go, confusing it with Sicario again. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
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