Mail Robot
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Post by Mail Robot on Mar 24, 2017 7:19:32 GMT -8
This thread was initially posted January 24, 2015.
Jeremy (1/24/15): We've already got a thread for anime, so why not make one for the cartoons produced on this side of the world?
As I've stated several times on this board, I've long been an animation lover. Though my passion has waned a bit in recent years, I still enjoy a good animated series now and then.
I regard The Simpsons as the greatest sitcom ever, and I love a large chunk of the DCAU. (For the unfamiliar, that's the shorthand term for the DC Animated Universe, comprising the '90s Batman animated series and the numerous shows it spawned.)
I love Avatar and Korra (and I'll be updating that thread again soon, honest), and I have an undying affection for the comedic works of Tom Ruegger. (Animaniacs and Freakazoid in particular.)
As you can probably guess from my avatar, I'm a fan of Kim Possible. My other Disney favorites are Phineas and Ferb and DuckTales. Oh, and Futurama is hilarious, as is Bob's Burgers.
I'm probably missing a whole bunch. Oh, well, they'll come to me later.
Zarnium: I'm not exactly a big watcher of western animated television. Phineas and Ferb is great, as was Futurama in its prime. Rick and Morty's first season was a little rocky, but it shows a lot of promise. I love The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, but only because it's so laughably terrible and uniquely bizarre. Other than that, I'm not especially interested in any western shows except the Avatar franchise, which I hope to start watching before too long. It looks like it has a certain dramatic weight and complexity to it that most western animated dramas seem to lack.
I find that adult cartoons are usually too crude or generic for my tastes, while cartoons made for children are usually too juvenile. Maybe I'm biased, but I was never interested in superhero cartoons or the like even when I was younger. Now, western animated movies I can really get behind; they tend to do a better job of appealing to a very wide age range. The Toy Story movies might be my favorite films of all time, in fact.
Iguana-on-a-stick (1/25/15): The best Disney cartoon was "Darkwing Duck."
Admittedly, I last saw it when I was 14 or so, but who can forget those badass speeches. "I am the terror that flaps in the night, I am the fingernail that scrapes the blackboard of your soul." "I am the special news bulletin that interrupts your favorite show."
Plus some hilarious villains. And a very flawed-but-fun protagonist.
Wait, unless "Gargoyles" was Disney too? That one might have been even better. But it didn't have ducks in it, so it doesn't count. Also not nearly as funny.
Disclaimer: I've never actually seen 90% of the shows you mention, Jeremy. Probably aired after I stopped watching cartoons. I do like the Simpsons, of course. But Phoneas & Pherb, Kim Possible, Animaniacs, Bob's Burgers, etc, etc. Haven't even heard of some of them.
Jeremy: I like Darkwing Duck, but not as much as those other shows I listed. On the plus side, Darkwing/Drake was a likable lead, and I loved his relationship with Gosalyn. On the other hand, I didn't think Launchpad was used quite as well as on DuckTales, and the show could sometimes get a bit frenetic for my liking.
I think a large part of the problem was the tone of the violence. Animated violence generally exists in two modes: It's either played completely straight, with action scenes that are constructed as real and cause real damage (though they may not be too bloody, for the kids' sake), or they may be played in full-on comedic "immortality" mode, where characters can get crushed by anvils or blown up by dynamite and be back good as new in the next scene. Darkwing chose an uncomfortable middle ground between these two modes, whereby characters get hurt in wacky, cartoony ways, and often endure injuries (albeit still temporary ones) from them. I'm not sure that ever really worked.
I think my favorite episode is "Twin Beaks". (Ironically, I watched it years before I'd even heard of Twin Peaks, so I had no idea that the episode was a parody.)
I've seen some of Gargoyles, and it was quite good. I've been meaning to sit down with the whole series someday, in part because it was made by Greg Wiseman, who also gave us The Spectacular Spider-Man (arguably the greatest superhero cartoon ever).
Also, Animaniacs aired around the same time as Darkwing. Maybe it just didn't make a splash in Europe? (Ironic, as I know that parts of Europe actually banned Darkwing for being too violent.)
Zarnium: The only Sonic series I've ever seen is Sonic Underground. Which I strongly disliked. That said, I've heard that Sonic: SatAM is good, and yeah, supposedly AoStH works as a guilty pleasure.
And I definitely love Western animated movies. Now that this site has a Film Reviews section, I'm probably going to warm up with a few Nineties-era Disney films, and maybe a few Pixar ones as well.
Stake&Cheese: Scooby Doo: Mystery Incorporated is my favorite non-Avatar/DCAU children's cartoon of all time.
Better than Young Justice (which I do love).
Also, Green Lantern: The Animated Series is great.
BoogtehWoog: What about greats like Samurai Jack, The Powerpuff Girls, and Dexter's Laboratory? All were excellent Western animations.
Zarnium: Confession time: I have never watched an entire episode of The Simpsons. I doubt I'll ever have the stamina to watch all 30+ seasons that the show has produced and will continue to produce in the future, but I would be interested in watching at least some of it at a later date. Which season is the best as an intro the show?
Jeremy: Mystery Incorporated was so good. Very fun, and with a well-built series arc all around. I actually briefly considered putting it on my "Lustrum" list. (Think of it as an Honorable Mention.)
I didn't care much for Powerpuff Girls as a kid, not quite because it seemed to girly, but because it was surprisingly violent. (I did not have the strongest stomach in my grade school.) But I've lately caught some reruns on Boomerang. It's a really fun show.
If you're new to The Simpsons, you definitely don't want to start from Season One. Not because it's bad, but it's just not representative of the show as a whole.
Season Two is a good starting point, as it's where the show gets good. Seasons Three through Eight are generally regarded as the show's high point. Then the series loses some steam, and later seasons can range from "really funny" to "flat-out awful". But even nowadays, the show still produces the occasional flash of brilliance.
I'm still watching, and I'm likely going to keep watching every episode ever made, simply because of how much the series has become a part of my life. It more or less defined comedy for me.
Zarnium: Come to think of it, given that The Simpsons started in 1989 yet the characters don't age (to my knowledge), how has the show dealt with cultural changes over time?1 Like, do the characters have cell phones now?
(1: Poorly.)
Jeremy: iPhones, actually.
I still can't get used to how the modern episodes feature plasma-screens and iPads. The characters never age, but the technology has come a long way from the videocassettes and corded phones of Season One.
It's mostly disconcerting when the show does actual jokes or plots about these technological advancements. You just know how dated those episodes will look ten years down the line.
BoogtehWoog: That's one thing that got me with Futurama's return. It had all these silly references to the present that didn't fit the humor of the rest of the series.
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Mail Robot
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Post by Mail Robot on Mar 24, 2017 7:40:39 GMT -8
guttersnipe (1/26/15): I'm somewhat unversed with Western animated TV shows, although in my misspent youth I devoted an absurd amount of time to Tom & Jerry and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (or Hero Turtles over here, thanx Thatcher). A few years later and I got onboard rightaway with The Simpsons and followed it slavishly ever since, still trying valiantly to deflect the brickbats aimed at it since the late '90s, nevertheless admitting a howler when I see one ("The Greatest Story Ever D'ohed", "Lisa Gopes Gaga", etc). I'm slightly less enthused but still very enamoured with Futurama, and a recent reacquaintance with King of the Hill made me wonder why I ever let the show slip away from me. I blazed through the first five seasons (the only ones I could rent, fondly remembering episodes I hadn't seen in over a decade) and will undoubtedly follow it through to the end. If my memory is anything to go by, I recall The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog being endearing derpness and Sonic SatAM as genuinely enjoyable.
Jay: Futurama was one of my favorites during its initial run for its unique hybrid of really smart and really dumb humor. I never caught up with it after it revived, but it's sad to hear that they went the pop culture route with it. Formulaic as it is, I regard the pop culture shift from older references to current events as one of the failings of the Family Guy revival (no one is going to remember a few years from now that Christian Bale once yelled at a lighting guy). I've cited The Real Ghostbusters a few times here as something I watched religiously as a child. It's not great animation and the characters become a little flatter as they get to syndication, but it had some smart people writing for it and often made use of real world myths and legend. They also had the creator/showrunner of Babylon 5 writing a lot of the scripts, which is interesting. I won't attempt to defend the Slimer spin-offs as I always found them boring. I think the revived series in the 90s was also fairly decent. There's a lot of ground that could be covered here... a lot of stuff that isn't even necessarily good, like the Hanna-Barbara superhero cartoons of the Birdman and Space Ghost ilk although they turned into some fine adult swim spinoffs ( SG:C2C is a favorite of mine). Williams Street generally could have its own discussion as far as its unique animation output. More mainstream, I don't know, Ruby-Spears also did some strange things, like Turbo Teen, which I had long been convinced was some nightmare I had until I saw it being parodied on Robot Chicken. I don't know what you do with things that are famous in the west but were actually animated in Japan, like Thundercats and its even more hilariously incompetent descendant, Silverhawks
Jeremy: Apparently, even the Family Guy people agree with you, because that scene was cut from the Season Seven DVD release. (It's on YouTube, though.)Not being an Eighties child, I've never seen a lot of series from that era. When I say a grew up on DuckTales, I'm referring to the late-Nineties reruns on FOX Kids. (Remember when that existed?)
Jay: Hilarious! Yeah, I'm realizing that I was skipping over a lot of stuff that might come more readily to mind, like Nicktoons or the Disney Afternoon block. As with anything, there was good in each (I watched a LOT of Gargoyles), and a lot of fare that seemed more forgettable.
Boscalyn: Bender says "Thanks Obama!" once and there's a "NOT SURE IF..." meme for the opening gag, but that's literally the extent of the immediately dated humor. I used to be really hard on the revived Futurama seasons, but now I feel compelled to defend them. They're not really any more reliant on pop culture references than the original series was. The first season had an entire episode dedicated to an Ally McBeal parody, remember? In fact, if it weren't for "Single Female Lawyer/fighting for her client/wearing sexy miniskirts and being self-reliant" I'm pretty sure no one under the age of 30 would know who Ally McBeal was. The only reason people don't complain about the dated millennial culture jokes in the first four seasons is because of nostalgia.
BoogtehWoog: I disagree, but it has been a long time since I watched the new seasons of Futurama so I can't really cite anything in particular to refute your assertion. Nevertheless, don't get me wrong. I do like a lot of the stuff in the new seasons. I simply realize that it had a rough start and that there was a disproportionate amount of pop culture stuff in them. The Ally McBeal pop culture reference really wasn't anywhere near as overt as the stuff that occurred in new Futurama. It stood pretty well on its own without being something you had to be there to see to make it funny.
Jay: When I remember the first iteration of the series, I never remember the Ally McBeal parody. It was always one of the weaker episodes even if it got Lrrr in there for the first time. I guess when I remember Futurama, I generally remember the bits of dialogue more than anything, like in "Jurassic Bark" ("What do we want?" "FRY'S DOG!" "When do we want it?" "FRY'S DOG!" "Yaaaayy") or "The Devil's Hands are Idle Playthings." Some of the guest characters were going to be dated in time, that's sort of what they play with given that Fry was from 1999 anyway, but I was of course extremely happy with all the Al Gore appearances.
Jeremy: I watched the "Single Female Lawyer" episode long before I'd ever heard of Ally McBeal, and I still found it very funny. The revived Futurama did an entire episode about "EyePhones", and that's going to age heavily down the road. (I don't actually dislike the later seasons of Futurama. I'm mostly just miffed because the fourth and last season of the show's original run brilliantly expanded on the mythology of the series, and the revived seasons pretty much reset the clock to zero.)
LouisLittForEmperor: Probably the biggest problem with later Futurama was a lack of any new revelations or additions to the mythology (except one or two things). Sure a lot of it was revealed by the final original season (and the 13 episode seasons didn't help) but not having it took away one of the things that made the show unique.
Boscalyn: I don't think there was all that much to add mythos-wise. (Other than that episode where Hermes and Bender try to find Bender's creator/father/whatever.) What the new seasons DID do was stop with the will-they-or-won't-they and have Fry and Leela's relationship stabilize, which I very much appreciated. I was going to bring up the iPhones episode, which has the most transient references of all the new Futurama episodes, but the entire episode is about the transience of internet memes, and how quickly our technology becomes obsolete. There's a very good reason for the episode about consumerism to have Susan Boyle jokes. (Similar to "Where No Fan Has Gone Before," where the irrelevance of Star Trek in the 3000s is what makes the plot gel.)
Jeremy: The problem with post-revival Futurama isn't that it failed to add more to the mythos per se. It's that all the development in Season Four (such as in "The Why of Fry", for example) had so much potential to be expounded on, and the later seasons just ignore these developments and keep everything in stasis. But I agree about the Fry/Leela material. I especially like how their relationship didn't impede on the storytelling f the show itself, but was mostly relegated to the background. (Much like Kim and Ron in the last season of Kim Possible.)
Stake&Cheese (1/27/15): FOX Kids was where it was at. They had Power Rangers and Digimon. What more could you ask for?
Jeremy (3/24/15): I think I've reignited an old passion. Yesterday, I finished a rewatch of Superman: The Animated Series (which I hadn't really seen since 2007) and it reminded me of how much I loved the DCAU. Although the show wasn't quite the experience it was the first time around, it was sill a huge deal of fun, with great stories, design, voice work, and animation. I'm actually very eager now to go back and revisit the other series in the canon (particularly the Batman and Justice League shows), which I also haven't seen in a long while. As I mentioned once on a different thread, the DCAU used to be a huge obsession of mine. I'm curious to see how well it all holds up.
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Mail Robot
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Post by Mail Robot on Mar 24, 2017 8:07:23 GMT -8
Zarnium (7/12/16): Anyone wanna sell me on Gravity Falls? I keep hearing about how great it is, but I don't know anything about it.
Flamepillar112: Hey Jeremy, what are the other shows in the DCAU? I saw justice league and Justice league Unlimited but I didn't know there were any other shows in that universe.
Zarnium: Gravity Falls is about two twins who are spending the summer at their great uncle's tourist trap: Gravity Falls. While they're there they unlock the secrets of the falls. That's about all I knew going in. There are some genuinely touching moments, some genuinely hilarious moments, and the whole show is, to put it mathematically, a metric ass ton of fun. Go watch it, go watch it now. It's worth it.
Jeremy: Gravity Falls is sort of like Twin Peaks, except that it kind of makes logical sense.
The show has creative stories, some great animation, and some very funny jokes - but most importantly, it has memorable characters. The relationship between the two leads, Dipper and Mabel, is about as great a young brother/sister relationship as I've ever seen on television.
Gravity Falls also features a series-long mystery arc that - unlike many other shows with series-long mystery arcs - was completely planned out from the beginning. The show may initially seem random and spontaneous in its plotting, but it genuinely has a plan in mind.
Also, Linda Cardellini is in it. How can you go wrong?
So yeah, it's a really good, really fun show. And only 40 half-hour episodes, so it's not a massive investment.
The Justice League shows are the last in a line that also features:
Batman: The Animated Series Superman: the Animated Series The New Batman Adventures Batman Beyond Static Shock The Zeta Project
I mentioned them in the official DCAU thread.
Flamepillar112: Thanks! So far, it's two for 2. I loved both of the shows that I watched. Marvel was well on the way to matching them, then they canceled their best shows. (Avengers: earths mightiest heroes, Wolverine and the X-Men, and spectacular Spiderman). Well at least that piece of shit Ultimate Spiderman is canc-renewed for a 3rd season. Wtf marvel?
Jeremy: I've never watched Ultimate Spider-Man.
I still haven't forgiven the cancellation of Spectacular Spider-Man.
Boscalyn:
In some respects. In the respect that Twin Peaks was a heavily metaphorical show with a fiercely idiosyncratic creative vision which at its center delved between two diametrical opposed worlds, one mundane and one savage, and dealing heavily with the psychic trauma of abuse victims, its real successor is The Maxx. This is less obvious as they're set in polar opposite locales (rural West Coast vs urban East Coast), but there is no doubt in my mind that Sam Kieth is the David Lynch of cartooning.
Flamepillar112:
Spider-man Homecoming better be amazing. I am not sure though. Though he was brilliant in Civil War, The movie is being written by the writers of a bunch of safe easy comedies. It would make me feel a little better if the movie was great.
Jeremy:
Let me try this again. Gravity Falls is sort of like Eerie, Indiana...
Zarnium:
Scooby-doo?
Jeremy: Depends. Cardellini was not a great Velma. But she was an awesome Hot Dog Water.
Boscalyn: Although, as goes without saying, her performance pales in comparison to John Francis Daley's Chocolate Starfish.1
(1. This is presumably a reference to the 2000 Limp Bizkit album Chocolate Starfish and the Hot Dog Flavored Water.)
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Mail Robot
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Post by Mail Robot on Mar 24, 2017 8:09:53 GMT -8
Jeremy (7/14/16): Okay, as long as we're talking about great Disney animated series...
I'm halfway through the second season of Gargoyles, and I'm really enjoying it. The characters are interesting, the tone is palpably dark, and the animation looks great even 20+ years later.
But if there's one thing that distinguishes this series from the pack, it's the way it develops its stories.
Most shows that try to mix episodic stories with long-term arcs tend to follow a predictable formula: The standalones feature bits and pieces of long-term development amidst plots that don't fully connect with the overarching story. Full-blown arc episodes occur every now and then, and become more common as the show moves into later seasons.
What makes Gargoyles so intriguing is that every episode (excepting multi-parters, of course) feels like a self-contained story - and yet none of them feel like "standalones." The show features at least six or seven different arcs that occur simultaneously, with each episode focusing on at least one or two of them at a time. The arcs constantly intersect with one another, and range across every genre from fantasy to horror to film noir.
Every episode adds something to the overall series, and not just tangentially. The status quo is constantly upset. Storylines can shift gears at the most unexpected times, in the most unexpected ways.
I'm struggling to think of another TV show that tells its stories in this manner - let alone a show that did it from Day 1.
So yeah. Color me impressed.
Jay: I'm surprised you hadn't gotten onto that earlier. I only remember large pieces of its initial run, but it was an interesting concept at least and well-executed within the parameters. I will warn you that that later seasons just before cancellation go through a rather lengthy monster-of-the-week stretch.
Jeremy: I know the last season (which was produced for a different network and with different writers) gets a lot of flak from fans, many of whom don't even consider it canonical. Unlike the first two seasons, it's not available on DVD, so I don't know if I'll even get around to watching it.
Jay: I checked the episode listing and it looks like the World Tour/MotW run starts around where you're at in S2. I don't know that I actually even saw S3, but it seems as if I thought there were far more seasons than there were, part of the side effect of having syndicated animation.
Also, Keith David needs to do more voice acting. Like, a lot more.
Jeremy: Yeah, I just started the World Tour arc. It seems like an interesting concept, but at the same time, I'm worried that constantly shifting the setting will mean, as you indicate, an increased reliance on MotW episodes. If the show does go that route, I'll be disappointed, since it's done such a great job of avoiding the formula so far.
And Keith David is excellent. I loved him in The Princess and the Frog, and his voice is equally awesome here. For that matter, I love how Elisa's rather obscure ethnicity (half-black/half-Native American) was specifically modeled after the actress who voices her. What other cartoon does that?
Jeremy (8/02/16): Well, I just finished Gargoyles.
(By "finished," I mean the original, 65-episode series. I have not watched the extra season that was produced by different writers, for a different network, under a different title. Honestly, I don't really think I want to watch that season.)
So I know what you're all wondering: Is it as good as Avatar: The Last Airbender?
Well... no. But there are plenty of things it does just as well as ATLA - and a few thngs it does even better.
In terms of scope and cohesiveness, Avatar is the gold standard of Western animation. It tells a gripping story that builds carefully over three seasons to an excellent finale. It's rare to see any show, animated or not, with that level of ambition.
Gargoyles isn't at that level, but it has some truly great episodes and arcs throughout its run. Weak episodes are few and far between. World-building and continuity are impressive. Every episode services the characters or furthers the story on some level. Very few threads are left dangling by the final episode.
But what's most impressive is the way the series hits the ground running. Whereas Avatar spent much of its first season experimenting and working itself past a few tonal and character bumps, Gargoyles emerges fully formed from its pilot episode. There are no bumps or early hiccups for the show to work through - it just nails everything from Day One.
The show isn't perfect, of course. While most characters (both gargoyle and human) get a fair deal of depth, a couple of the side-gargoyles remain disappointingly two-dimensional. And the World Tour arc, though not without some strong episodes, goes on a bit longer than it should.
But overall? If you enjoy ambitious, complex animated television, Gargoyles is a great deal of fun. It's certainly one of the best animated shows of the 1990s, and deserves more recognition than it gets.
P.S Can we consider "City of Stone" to be one of the great films of the Disney Renaissance?
Jay: Glad you enjoyed it. I'm of the same opinion on the world tour arc. Although... it kind of reminded me of the arcs I was familiar with in my own childhood in The Real Ghostbusters: very rarely even two-part episodes and yet from a historical/cultural vantage, smart and researched, just lacking long-term impact.
Jeremy (8/03/16): Well, the majority of World Tour episodes did tie into the main arcs. It's just that the format isn't built for long-term serialization.
It's why DS9 was able to engage in serialized arcs, whereas the other Star Trek shows were not - keeping the stories confined to a single location allowed more room for linear development and outgrowth.
Speaking of Star Trek: Who knew Riker, Troi, Data, Worf, Uhura, Sisko, Janeway, Geordi, and O'Brien all had a knack for voice acting?
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Mail Robot
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Post by Mail Robot on Mar 24, 2017 8:16:05 GMT -8
Boscalyn (8/22/16): Today I watched two whole episodes of The Nutshack. Let the show's theme song be a testament to my masochism.
Zarnium (8/24/16): After watching three episodes of Mystery Incorporated, I think Daphne might be an alien. Item #1: She has purple eyes with no pupils. Item #2: Her waist is narrower than her head. Also, was Fred into "traps" in the original show? I don't remember that.
Jeremy: Fred was always the one who came up with the traps. Mystery Incorporated just takes things a step further by having him be completely obsessed with traps. Mystery Incorporated takes everything a step further.
Boscalyn: Oooooooooooooh man those quotation marks really threw me for a loop for a second there.
Stake&Cheese: I'm rewatching Mystery Incorporated right now!!! "Dad, all kids my age are into solving mysteries and trapping bad guys!" "No...they're not."
Zarnium (8/28/16): Dorbees! Rolling down the halls, I see Dorbees! Tiny little balls, I see Dorbees! Why don't they gooooo awaaaaay!!I found this a couple days and laughed like a maniac, I couldn't resist sharing it.
Boscalyn: Actually, there's an episode of The Nutshack with a six-minute parody of The O.C. so maybe Jeremy would like this show?
Jeremy: The Simpsons once did a parody of The OC. It taught me that no one who parodies The OC has ever watched The OC.
Zarnium: I'll put down some more thoughts thoughts on Mystery Incorporated sooner or later, but I'm curious: has anyone seen the current Be Cool, Scooby-doo? It looks, uh... really bizarre? Like some kind of Rick and Morty and Family Guy hybrid.
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Post by Mail Robot on Mar 24, 2017 8:24:54 GMT -8
BoogtehWoog (8/30/16): My boyfriend and I are working our way through the first season of Clone Wars. Quite enjoyable for what it is. It is nowhere near the level of masterpiece that Avatar: TLA is, for instance, but for a children's show, it does alright.
Flamepillar112 (8/31/16): I actually quite like the cgi show. It gets much better, although I prefer the micro-series animated one, just called Star Wars: Clone Wars (no the). I just watched the first season of rebels, and it was ok at best, except for the last 3 episodes, which were awesome.
Jeremy: Still doesn't seem as traumatizing as Shaggy and Scooby-Doo Get a Clue!
BoogtehWoog: I mean, I quite like it as well! Don't get me wrong, hah. I haven't seen the micro-series in forever, so I cannot say anything about it except I liked it. Still, this one is quite fine and I really like the art style of it.
Zarnium: Zoinks! That's the most obnoxious opening sequence I've ever seen, and I've seen this! Anyway, Mystery Incorporated is really good so far, I'm almost done with season 1. The first couple episodes weren't so great, mainly because they really overdo it with the self-referential humor. There were too many self-conscious references to how ridiculous the central concept is, and there were way too many jokes about Fred being obsessed with traps. Hearing him say the word "trap" every other sentence gets old very fast, as does watching his overly complicated Rube Goldberg machines going off. It's a tad off-putting, because it initially just feels like the show is little more than a flanderized parody. Luckily, that dries up pretty quickly. There's not so much blatant lampshade hanging, and Fred's character becomes a little more sophisticated as his obsession with traps becomes more detailed and complex. Like, in "Escape from Mystery Manor," most of the humor doesn't just come from the fact that he's obsessed with traps; it comes from how ridiculously detailed his knowledge of traps is and how he has names for different "gambits" and stuff like that, and it really feels like a genuine hobby that he's poured a lot of time and love into. It's a lot funnier and deeper than what we had in the very beginning. In general, the show just comes together really well. The characters are fun and have plenty of development with just the right amount of conflict, there's a nice balance between continuous and standalone storytelling, the self-parody is pretty funny when it's subtle, and Fred and Daphne's romantic relationship is probably the best I've seen in an American cartoon. My one big problem is Shaggy and Velma's romantic subplot. It's fine that they were dating, it was causing problems, and they broke up; that conflict helps keep the group dynamic from becoming stale and complacent. What's wrong with it is that we never see them being happy together. The show drops us right into their issues without showing us why one or both of them is interested in the other in the first place. Is there a reason why Velma is attracted to Shaggy? All she does is complain about him and try to change him. Is there a reason why Shaggy hasn't already broken it off? He always seems uncomfortable with her. The writers could have given us something to go on, some believable reason why they're together so that so it makes some logical sense and gives us some investment. As it is, it doesn't work too well.
J.C. (9/01/16): Shaggy's gettin' some?! ZOINKS!
Boscalyn: Man, you guys really didn't watch that clip I linked from The Nutshack, did you...
Jeremy: I don't really like the early episodes of Mystery Incorporated, largely due to the overabundance of meta-humor. (It's the "bad" kind or meta-humor, since it undermines the seriousness of the characters and story.) Thankfully, the series downplays that as it goes along. What the show does really well are parodies. I don't think I've ever seen an animated series - let alone a serialized animated series - so committed to so many different pop-culture parodies. It really adds to the show's sense of gleeful fun. It's not a perfect show, but it's a highly enjoyable one, and I'll probably be rewatching it someday.
Zarnium: Oh, I watched it. I just think these other two are worse. What the hell is the "Nutshack" that the song refers to?
J.C.: One must never undermine the seriousness of Scooby Doo.
Jeremy: Agh. Are we going to get the neutral emoticon every time I try taking the show seriously? There's no doubt that Mystery Incorporated has a tough task in trying to make Scooby-Doo palpable to older audiences, which rationalizes the tonal imbalance of the early episodes. The show takes a little while to figure out whether it's a serious comedy or a funny drama, before the increasingly deepening series arc pushes it in the latter direction. In his rather critical review of the pilot, Jay Allman (you may remember him as the writer of that negative Avatar review I linked to last year) raises some good points about the show's shaky beginnings. This segment in particular explains the seemingly impossible wall the writers were attempting to climb: Once the show finds the right tonal balance, though, no amount of talking-dog risibility can stop it.
Zarnium: Not only is the title character a talking dog, but the villain is a talking parrot with a German accent! This definitely isn't a show you can go into without a significant suspension of disbelief. I do think it's kind of funny how they handwave away the talking animals; "We need to use a talking Jackal to perform this Voodoo ritual! Can we use our talking dog instead?"
Boscalyn: It's the Nut shack. (Seriously, no idea. The show takes place in San Francisco's Tenderloin district so it's not a reference to where they live.)
Jeremy: And without going into any specific spoilers, let me just add that there's more to Scooby's ability to talk than meets the eye...
Zarnium: Incidentally, while Mystery Incorporated always has a loose grasp on reality at the best of times, it does occasionally become so arbitrarily wacky and illogical that I'm taken out of the story for a moment. Like, in that episode where Pericles gains control of the traps in Fred's house, why the heck does that cause Shaggy and Scooby's homemade pizza to come to life, complete with dialogue and a personality? What possible "trap" could Fred have placed in his individual food ingredients to make such a thing happen?
Jeremy: That's a problem with most Scooby-Doo shows and animated movies. There are so many instances in that defy the laws of logic and physics just for wacky comedy. There's often a ton of monster-based comedy that retroactively doesn't make sense once the villain is unmasked. People tend to forget that, talking dog aside, the original Scooby-Doo, Where Are You? was very grounded in reality when it began. The slapstick humor was not exaggerated and didn't feature too much significant "wackiness." (Though this can be at least partly attributed to the limitations of 1969 animation.) The stories were straightforward and usually uncomplicated. Then during the second season, someone decided that every episode needed to feature a wacky montage of the villain chasing the Scooby Gang through a haunted house while a terrible pop song played on the soundtrack. And it's all gotten crazier from there.
J.C. (9/02/16): So it's basically like the transition from earnest 21 Jump Street to the Jonah Hill/Channing Tatum version?
Jeremy (9/03/16): I don't think the transition was ever quite that sudden or dramatic. Some of the spinoffs have taken themselves half-seriously, while others (such as A Pup Named Scooby-Doo) are almost entirely driven by comedy. None of them are as straightforward as Scooby-Doo, Where Are You. But that kind of makes sense, since it set the original template for all the other shows to follow.
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Mail Robot
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Post by Mail Robot on Mar 24, 2017 8:30:29 GMT -8
Zarnium (9/13/16): I finished Twin Peaks! Er, I mean, Scooby-Doo: Mystery Incorporated! I thoroughly enjoyed this show; it was funny, it was intelligent, it had top-notch voice acting, and it made good use of the Scooby-Doo mythos to tell a story deeper and more complex than the basic template was ever intended to be used for. Color me impressed. I'll write my extended thoughts later.
Jeremy: See, technically, Gravity Falls would make a better comparison to Twin Peaks. But unlike Mystery Incorporated, Gravity Falls doesn't have a dancing dwarf.
Zarnium: The various homages throughout the series were pretty clever, from Twin Peaks to The Shining, though I think my favorite was that one villain who talked in a Christopher Walken impression. I'm not sure if that was a reference to a particular movie or not, but it was pretty funny.
Jeremy (9/19/16): Watched Clone High recently. Very, very funny show, with a surprising amount of heartfelt emotion for a wacky cartoon.
The characters are all well-crafted, and the show makes good use of the "clone" factor - particularly with JFK and Joan of Arc. And Scudworth is up there with Drs. Drakken and Doofenshmirtz as one of the great mad scientists of TV animation.
It's comforting to know that even back in their early days, Phil Lord and Chris Miller were creatively subverting all sorts of genre expectations.
Unfortunately, because it was a high school show focused on unpopular teenagers, it naturally was cancelled after one season. But the 13 episodes the series managed to eke out are a load of fun.
Zarnium: Alright: more thoughts on Mystery Incorporated. Spoilers to follow!
Pros:
+Like I said before, this show does a very good job of taking the basic Scooby-Doo concept and characters and using them for a more modern style of TV. The original Scooby-Doo, Where are You? presented a fairly simple, arbitrary set-up, where five basic character archetypes solve a mystery every episode. That's difficult to turn into a deeper, more complex story, both because there's not a whole lot to build off of and because the setup is patently absurd. Mystery Incorporated handles this rather deftly by integrating this absurdity into its mythology, offering up some justification and explanation for why a bunch of teenagers and their talking dog are fighting ridiculous supervillains every week. Rather than ignore the franchise's roots, the show takes an introspective look at them and milks them for all their worth.
+The characters and their development are awfully well done. Fred and Daphne, previously the two most ignored and least interesting of the gang, are given a fresh coat of paint and are now the most prominent players. Fred is an airhead idiot-savant who reminds me a lot of Andy Dwyer with a more tragic backstory, and Daphne has evolved beyond her damsel-in-distress role to be a much more intelligent and active character. They're both a lot of fun to watch, and their relationship is a nice exploration of the ins and outs of swoony teen romance. The others are good too, but it's nice to see a Scooby-Doo show that gives the limelight to someone besides Shaggy and Scooby for once.
+The voice acting is excellent, for both the main cast members and one-offs. There are too many good VA's for me to rattle off here, but in a cast full of common industry veterans my favorite surprise was probably Lewis Black as Mister E. Never heard him before, but he gives such a distinctive performance. EDIT: Wait a minute! Just found out he played Anger in Inside Out, so I have heard him before. Still, an impressive performance from someone not necessarily known for career voice work.
Cons:
-I've already complained about Shaggy and Velma's relationship. It's a real shame that that wasn't handled better, because it results in Velma's personality being somewhat ill-defined until the second season.
-A lot of plot developments aren't strung out for as long as they should be. The whole thread about Fred's father being the Freak would have had more impact if the Freak storyline had been built up through the whole season instead of being introduced one episode before. Afterwards, Fred's father barely ever appears again. Likewise, after the gang splits up, they get back together a bit too fast, which is especially disappointing because Hot Dog Water is such an under-utilized character. For a lot of major plot developments, a bit more build-up and follow-through would have been nice.
-I'm not a fan of the final episode. It's ok, but the big showdown with the evil entity-thing doesn't fit the tone of the show very well, and I don't like the cosmic retcon that cheaply fixes everything bad that's ever happened in Crystal Cove.
-This is minor, but whose idea was it to have character named Mister E be a part of a group called Mystery Incorporated? I know that "Mister E" is supposed to be a pun, but I constantly had to think about whether the characters were referring to Mister E or to Mystery Incorporated. As much as I love the character, he should have been named something else.
Boscalyn: I was literally two seconds away from asking you how you'd never heard Lewis Black's voice before in your life...
Jeremy:
It took me a little time to acclimate to the idea that the title character was the least integral and least interesting member of the main cast. Again, this is what happens when said title character is a talking dog.
Fascinating Fact: When my family was first watching Inside Out, and Anger started speaking, my brother immediately said, "Mr. E?!"
Agreed. For all the great storytelling in the first 51 episodes, Mystery Incorporated ultimately does not stick the landing.
But you know what? I don't think it really hurts the show. There are some serialized shows where a weak ending can retroactively cheapen the whole experience (Lost and HIMYM spring to mind). But Mystery Incorporated is just so light and loose that a disappointing ending really doesn't hurt it very much. (Particularly since all the major story threads are technically resolved by the end.)
Zarnium:
I'm not real well-versed on stand-up, so that's how.
My main point is that Mystery Incorporated has a lot of well known career voice actors like Frank Welker and Grey DeLisle who have tons of different animation roles, while Lewis Black has comparatively little voicework on his resume. Thus, one might consider this his breakout performance as far as voice acting is concerned.
For the most part I agree, but the one detail about the retcon that got under my skin is that Fred's Mayor-Dad isn't his adoptive father anymore in the alternate universe. I mean, I know that he was a terrible parent, but he was way better than Brad and Judy, and Fred thought so, too, so why does the "happy" ending have him being raised by Brad and Judy instead of Fred Jones Sr?
Jeremy: I think the idea is that Fred never needed an adoptive dad in the first place, since Brad and Judy weren't evil criminals in the alternate-world. Makes about as much sense as everything else.
By the way, did you notice that Fred's dads were voiced by Tim Matheson and Gary Cole? I like to think this was a shout-out to the West Wing Veeps.
Zarnium (9/20/16):
That's true, but the alternate universe also has Mayor Nettles and Sheriff Stone married with kids, even though there's no clear way that that could have happened. The whole shebang is somewhat arbitrary.
Giving Brad and Judy a happy ending was a bad idea not because it's illogical, but because it works against how the viewer has been guided to feel about them. Brad and Judy were totally unlikable villains with no redeeming qualities, so handwaving away their bitter end feels unfair. For comparison, Mister E's happy ending is somewhat deserved because he redeemed himself in the end, and he always had some semblance of a moral compass. Fred Jones Sr. is in a similar boat, and after Fred's reconciliation with him in the dream world, it's a bit of a slap on the face that they're no longer father and son.
That's my biggest problem with the "happy" ending; it doles out happy endings to almost everyone in the show without any regard for whether it makes any narrative sense. In fact, I think the only characters who are worse off in the alternate universe are Daphne's sisters, who we have no reason to dislike.
Nope! I saw their names in the credits, but didn't connect them to The West Wing. That's pretty cool.
Jeremy:
Yeah, the problem isn't that the ending decides to go the happy, crowd-pleasing route, but that it feels so contrived in doing so.
To again use the obvious Avatar comparison - that show's happy ending felt natural, fitting the story and all the characters. That's a tricky thing to pull off, and some shows do it better than others.
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Mail Robot
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Post by Mail Robot on Mar 24, 2017 8:34:02 GMT -8
Zarnium (9/21/16): Out of curiosity, what is your opinion big name live-action Hollywood stars always taking the starring roles in major animated films, Jer? While I've never known anyone in a Disney or Pixar movie to do a bad job, part of me finds it a bit sad that career voice actors are constantly upstaged by actors who get the best jobs in the voice acting business through name recognition from live-action rather than dedication to voicework. I mean, I love Tom Hanks as Woody, but I'd like to see Billy West star in a Pixar film, too.
Jeremy (9/22/16): I don't mind, so long as the actors do a good job.
Disney and Pixar have done an admirable job of finding famous actors who, despite having little experience with voicework, still fit their characters perfectly. Tom Hanks and Tim Allen as Woody and Buzz, Albert Brooks and Ellen DeGeneres as Marlin and Dory, pretty much everyone in the celebrity-laden Wreck-It Ralph and Zootopia. Not every casting choice works, but most of the major roles tend to click.
If, however, the actors are just there for name recognition alone, it can be kind of annoying. None of the big-name actors in Shark Tale or Over the Hedge leave much of an impression with me, since the characters basically coast on star power and little else. Often while watching DreamWorks or Blue Sky films, I find myself wishing they would just cast some accomplished voice artists instead.
But as for the voice actors themselves: They certainly don't suffer from lack of work. Because actors like Billy West and Jim Cummings and Grey DeLisle have such malleable voices, they've had literally hundreds of acting jobs. So I think they're doing fine.
Boscalyn (10/23/16): Jeremy, I need to pick your brain.
Is it just me, or is Bob's Burgers not all that funny anymore? A lot of the episodes seem like they're building towards intensely obvious morals. Like, "Teen-A Witch" is what, the twentieth "Tina needs to be more assertive" episode? With a pinch of "I Get Psychic Out Of You" with the fake magic.
I don't think the show is able to do genuinely emotional things in the same way 90's Simpsons is so when every episode ends with a climactic "I need to be more X" moment (that is immediately forgotten next episode because episodic) it comes off hollow. And there's a funny sub-sub-plot with the biker who interacts with all the characters but the show isn't able to do funny meta-gags in the same way Arrested Development is.
A lot of it has to do with the animation with is just really crappy looking. Which I give it a pass for when it's being whimsical and fun but like. Christ, there are at least five episodes of Adventure Time that gave me more feels and/or showed more creativity than BB.
Flamepillar112 (10/24/16): Well, Adventure Time's great, so that's no big surprise. Especially the Ice king flash back episodes, which I assume you're referring to?
Jeremy (10/25/16): I agree that Bob's Burgers isn't as funny as it used to be, but there are a couple of factors to consider.
First, it may seem hard to acknowledge (since the show airs alongside the epoch-spanning Simpsons), but Bob's Burgers has been around a long time. It's currently in its seventh season. It feels like it hit its creative peak at least two or three years ago, around the time the show did a string of Tina-humanizing episodes and began really cranking up the quirk factor.
Second, BB is - almost by design - an uneven show. It wants to portray a relatable middle-class working family, but also wants to make its central characters goofy and bizarre. The balance it achieves is usually quite impressive, but there are always going to be times when the show fumbles with its tone. (Even the best seasons haven't been immune to dud episodes, with the possible exception of the very short S2.)
I'm still enjoying the show, but more as a weekly diversion than as one of the best comedies on TV. All in all, it still makes me laugh, and it's a far better Simpsons companion piece than all the stuff Seth MacFarlane churns out.
Boscalyn: BB has the opposite problem that The Simpsons has, actually-- it's never quite outlandish enough. Compare the puns in the title sequence and the burger of the day menu with the various couch gags, even in the latter's worst seasons. BB is distressingly grounded.
I think the show's best chance of branching out is if it tried to let the ancillary characters carry an episode or two instead of the Belchers. What's the nudist skateboarder up to? What's Marshmallow up to? Et cetera.
The other thing it could do to squeeze some life into the show is give Gene some personality traits beyond farting/crossdressing jokes.
Jeremy: It might be the perfect time to start fleshing out its supporting cast, actually. Season Seven of The Simpsons is notable for the way it begins shifting the focus away from the titular family and onto supporting characters ("22 Short Films About Springfield," "A Fish Called Selma," "Much Apu About Nothing"). It may be wise for Bob's Burgers to follow suit.
Haven't watched this week's episode yet, but Tina episodes are usually quite enjoyable, so I'll see how I react.
Flamepillar112: Son of Zorn has actually gotten quite good. It's still a little unsure of its own direction, but episodes 3 and 5 were really, really good.
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Mail Robot
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Post by Mail Robot on Mar 24, 2017 8:36:31 GMT -8
Jeremy (10/30/16): So... I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with the animated series As Told By Ginger, but Nickelodeon recently aired a handful of never-before-seen episodes.
Why is this notable, you may ask? Because these episodes were produced back in 2004. As in, Nick produced these episodes over twelve years ago, and is only bothering to air them now.
(And you thought you had to wait a long time for new Rick and Mortys.)
Flamepillar112 (11/01/16): Speaking of under-rated Batman: The Animated Series episodes, I also think "See No Evil", "Dreams in Darkness", and "Beware the Gray Ghost" all deserve much more attention than they receive. "The Clock King" and "Feat of Clay" were also tons of fun. Sadly, I can't say the same about "Heart of Steel", which I found dull on re-watch.
Jeremy: Oh, I enjoyed "Heart of Steel" quite a bit on rewatch. It's got a Body-Snatchers feel that builds tautly over two episodes.
Never cared for "Dreams in Darkness," though. I actually find it to be among the show's weaker Scarecrow episodes.
(BTW, the BTAS conversation was on this thread [dead link].)
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Mail Robot
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Post by Mail Robot on Mar 24, 2017 8:40:07 GMT -8
Zarnium (12/05/16): Has anyone seen Stephen Universe? I've been hearing great things about it recently.
Flamepillar112: I've watched a fair bit of it. At its best, it's an absolutely excellent animated series, but at its worst, it's a pile of flaming garbage. Thankfully, it's not at its worst most of the time, so I'd recommend it for sure .
Boscalyn: Nearly every description of the show I have come across includes the phrase "gay space rocks" which is not especially appealing (though to be fair neither is "it's a telenovela about artificial insemination" or "a workplace comedy but the workplace is the NYPD"). More seriously it seems to be like Adventure Time (makes sense, given Rebecca Sugar wrote some of the show's best episodes) but simultaneously more and less grounded? I'm mostly familiar with it as the source of nine million Youtube poops.
Jeremy: I've only seen snippets of the show, but it looks enjoyable, and the animation style is certainly appealing. Not sure it's the kind of show I'd make an effort to catch every episode of, though.
Zarnium: Supposedly it not only has good writing and world-building, but it's also massively pro-LGBT, without forgetting the B and T parts like a lot of gay-friendly stories do. The idea of a children's cartoon doing things like that blows my mind, frankly, so I'm rather curious. Of course, the last show I watched because of its pro-LGBT reputation was Lost Girl, which was... of mixed quality, to say the least? But I doubt that Stephen Universe has a lot of gratuitous sex scenes. Regardless, I don't have a way to watch it right now, so I'll have to put on the back burner.
Jeremy (12/06/16): The full series is on Hulu, along with a swath of other Cartoon Network shows. (Not to mention Gravity Falls!) But if you're looking for another great animated series that's available on Netflix, I whole-heartedly recommend Animaniacs. It's easily one of the best animated shows I've ever seen, and is just as hilarious now as it was in the '90s. (Probably even more so, now that I'm able to get the more sophisticated jokes.)
Jay: Hulu went to a pay-model a while back, so unless you want to do a trial run of it, you're now out of luck for using it as a means of getting current TV legally without an actual TV.
Zarnium: Actually, I may be watching Gravity Falls with my family early next year, since they have Amazon Prime and I'll be living back home for a couple months.
Jeremy: Sadly, Gravity Falls is not on Prime. (Like most modern TV, it's available for purchase on Amazon Video, but at a rather expensive price.) Prime does, however, feature the excellent Batman: The Animated Series, which I've been rewatching these past few months.
Zarnium: Ah, crap. I thought I saw it there.
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Mail Robot
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Post by Mail Robot on Mar 24, 2017 9:13:59 GMT -8
Jeremy (12/21/16): After much prodding and pleading from Boscalyn, I finally decided to check out The Maxx. And I ended up watching all 13 episodes today. (Okay, not an especially impressive feat - each episode is only 11 minutes long.) How to describe this show? I mean, it certainly held my interest. The plot, from what I could follow (and believe me, it was freaking hard to follow), had a lot on its mind thematically, and more than once did the show go to some pretty disturbing places. The characters were a bit difficult to latch onto, even as I slowly came to understand their personalites and motivations. But the writing isn't really the main focus here, is it? No, the most prominent thing about the series is its animation. And man, the animation is fantastic. The designs have a comic-book photorealism to them (not surprising, given its source material), yet characters move fluidly through each frame. The direction and editing are highly stylized and experimental, and the show features a terrific color palette. However convoluted or trippy the story gets, this series is just amazing to look at. The show is not without flaws. The voice acting is pretty lackluster (MTV of the '90s seemed averse to hiring actual voice actors for its animated shows), and while I understand that character development is not the show's strong suit, I do wish the "flashback" episode hadn't occurred so late in the series. Still, for what it was, this was certainly not a bad way to spend two and a half hours. If you're a fan of strange, disturbing television (particularly the animated variety), The Maxx is worth a look.
Flamepillar112: You know what else is worth two hours? The original Star Wars: Clone Wars micro-series. Whole thing's on Youtube for free, it's awesome.
Jeremy (1/02/17): My first mini-review of 2017! Naturally, it's for a short-lived TV show from the late '90s that everybody hates! (Wait, that's not natural. Oh well, can't win 'em all.) It's been about a decade since I watched the complete run of Pinky and the Brain on DVD, and in all that time, I've never felt compelled to check out its spinoff. In addition to being widely loathed by fans of Warner Bros. Animation, Pinky, Elmyra & the Brain just sounded like the dumbest of crossover spinoffs. Take the irritating antagonist from Tiny Toons and pair her with two lab mice trying to take over the world? This sounds like something Jack Donaghy would pitch as a throwaway joke. But I finally sat down and watched all 13 episodes, and... well, it's not really a good show, but I actually got a surprising number of laughs out of it. The characters and voice actors remain unaltered, and the writing, much of the time, is surprisingly clever. The folks behind Animaniacs and its related properties have a reputation for mixing kid-friendly and adult humor, and their talent bremains intact. One episode features a funny Jurassic Park parody; another is a scathing satire of TV edutainment. There's even a full episode that spoofs Poe's The Raven, and it's a lot cleverer than the one pulled off a few years earlier by Garfield & Friends. The show also features some sturdier continuity than the original series - while by no means serialized, there are several references made to previous episodes. You also have an arch-villain who looks and talks like Christopher Walken, because why not? The show is far from perfect - too many plots are underbaked, the songs (why are there songs?) are usually pretty lame, and the overall series can never overcome the smell of network-mandated product. But still, there was something refreshing about this show. It really felt like unearthing 13 more episodes of a series I loved so long ago - 13 troubled, notably flawed episodes, but still of a piece with the series that inspired it. P.S. Alex Borstein is credited as a writer on one episode. That may sound strange, but keep in mind that Seth MacFarlane wrote for shows like Johnny Bravo and Dexter's Laboratory before he created Family Guy.
Jeremy (2/02/17): So... maybe I'm setting myself up for a letdown, but I'm actually looking forward to Disney's upcoming DuckTales reboot. Look, I'm no fool. The original DuckTales was not only the best animated series of the 1980s, but possibly the greatest animated children's show of all time. So naturally, there's no way I can fairly expect the reboot to be anywhere near as enjoyable or groundbreaking as the original. But still - those character designs! That updated (but still faithful) theme song! And, of course, that voice cast! Hearing David Tennant (replacing the late Alan Young) as Scrooge McDuck sounds tempting enough, but having Danny Pudi, Ben Schwartz, and Bobby Moynihan as his nephews? Yes, please.
LouisLittForEmperor: Tennant really was kind of the perfect choice. He's got the big name and the hip appeal and he's actually Scottish!!! COME BACK HERE DEWEY. NOOOOOOWWWW DEWEY. It was also cool that Abed, the guy from the BroRape video (with Donald Glover!!!), Raj's Season 6 girlfriend and the lady from Castle Season 8 (grumble) were cast as well. Speaking of Western Animation I actually decided to get into Gravity Falls in the late summer as your comments reminded me I could pull a Legend of Korea and start recording it on TV to ease myself into it. At this point I've completed the first season and the shorts (at least the ones listed on Wikipedia). Admittedly the hyped up mystery plot may have led to some initial disappointment as it takes a while before a lot of it gets addressed (plus there are a lot of Dipper crush plots). However, I will say that actually knowing there was a mystery plot (and at least one factor regarding Stan in particular a little bit) allowed me to notice some subtle things (like his apparent bewilderment at the room in Carpe Diem). I'm probably going to start Season 2 not to far off though I wouldn't expect a final word for a while. Also here was a post I made on FB a day or so after watching the season 1 finale regarding a certain thread in it. MINOR SEASON 1 SPOILERS. So I've been mulling over the S1 finale since yesterday and I kind of have doubts about the the fear that Dipper has of not being anything without the journal. Yeah Dipper has confidence issues, yes Gideon isn't really that trustful or insightful and obviously it's proven not to be true at the end but I'm skeptical about him actual believing this outside of emotional trauma at the time. A lot of the time the journal never really held the solutions to certain problems (hell it didn't even show up in a handful of episodes) and Dipper would provide the solution a lot of the time (like Inconveniencing and Fight Fighters). So Dipper obviously didn't need to rely on it alone. But even if you want to stick to just the Gideon encounters alone Gideon's point is kind of undermined by the fact that he wouldn't exactly be anything without the journal (or the resources he had to boss his parents and get money for his various projects) either. In the four episodes he was facing Dipper he was using some kind of mystical power to have an edge and Dipper only really used or tried to use the journal to combat him in two of those times. Like in Hand that Rocks This Mabel and Little Dipper the journal wasn't even really involved in the solution to save the day. Might have been a good point to point out he was nothing without his sister which while also not true was a little bit more likely, especially if you factor Time Traveller's Pig.
Zarnium (3/06/17): There's a new promo for the Ducktales reboot! I never really watched the original Ducktales cartoon, but I did read tons of Don Rosa comics. While the old show was based on Carl Barks' work, I wonder if the new one will take more inspiration from Rosa's; the framed art in Scrooge's mansion seems to suggest so. David Tennant sounds great, though I'm not certain about the nephews, as much as I love Ben Schwartz. I've never been able to stand the "classic" Donald voice, though.
Jeremy: It does sound a little disconcerting to hear the nephews sound like Abed and Jean-Ralphio. Especially since on the original DuckTales (as well as Quack Pack), they were voiced by women. I also wonder if the show will feature adaptations of Barks (or Rosa) stories. Personally, I've always wanted to see an animated adaptation of "The Golden Helmet."
Boscalyn: You know, June Foray is going to turn 100 this year. It would be fantastic if someone wrote a blog post for her 100th birthday celebrating her achievements.
Jeremy: Ooh, I sense a challenge! June Foray is amazing. The fact that she's still working after all these decades (and has been voicing Granny and Natasha Fatale since the 1950s) is nothing short of an inspiration. Bless that woman.
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Post by Jeremy on May 30, 2017 13:23:49 GMT -8
So, first we get a reboot of DuckTales.
Now we may be getting a reboot of Animaniacs.
I cannot legitimately handle this level of awesome.
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Post by Jay on Jul 20, 2017 15:36:27 GMT -8
(let's see if this works)
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Post by Jeremy on Jul 23, 2017 17:05:33 GMT -8
Strange as it may sound, I've never actually watched a full episode of Rocko's Modern Life. It's probably the only '90s Nickelodeon series which holds that distinction.
The brief clips I've seen of it were sporadically funny, although they could get surprisingly, em, risque for a kids' cartoon.
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Post by Jeremy on Aug 13, 2017 17:03:42 GMT -8
So, anyone else catch the DuckTales pilot?
I mean, I'm not sure how you could avoid it, seeing as Disney aired it twenty-four consecutive times in a single day. And will air it several dozen more times before next month's official premiere.
Overall, my feelings are a bit mixed. The tone is a lot more tongue-in-cheek than the original, which makes for some great jokes and one-liners, but causes the drama to come off a bit flat. The premiere is also very fast-paced - it's just 45 minutes, while the 1987 pilot was roughly two hours. That means the show burns through a lot of story quickly, but there's not much time for it to register.
Still, I did have a good time watching it. The animation is sharp and eye-catching, the characters are true to their source material, and there's even a brief hint of serialization (something the original DuckTales flirted with in its later episodes). And Ben Schwartz is clearly having the time of his life.
It isn't yet making me forget the original, and I doubt it ever will, but I'll stick with it for a little while and see where it's headed. (Or tailed! Sorry, couldn't resist.)
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