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Post by Jeremy on Jul 27, 2018 10:51:13 GMT -8
Breen has confirmed that the new series will not be about Buffy, but about a different Slayer. And it will not feature new versions of Willow, Xander, etc. Whether the show will be a complete reboot or a sequel (judging by this news, it could go either way) remains to be seen.
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Post by Jeremy on Feb 2, 2021 19:53:45 GMT -8
Well, it's been two and a half years and still not a word of update about that Buffy reboot! Presumably it's trapped in the Development Hellmouth. But we now have a teaser for the next Joss Whedon show, The Nevers, premiering on HBO in April. The show answers the long-brewing question: "What if the X-Men were all women and also in Victorian England?" Joss has already quit the show and returned to his day job of Twitter trolling, but he did at least stick around till the first season finished production. It looks... kind of promising? I'm intrigued by the presence of Olivia Williams and Nick Frost, at least.
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Post by otherscott on Feb 3, 2021 7:01:31 GMT -8
I'm not saying this show can't be good, but I am somewhat skeptical that Joss still has his fastball in recent years. He seems to get harder and harder to work with and hasn't put out any quality product since the first Avengers movie, and that was nearly 10 years ago at this point.
I will absolutely watch at least a bit of The Nevers because HBO does know how to assemble a team, even if not every show of theirs is a success, but between people discovering super powers and women in Victorian England, this isn't exactly untrodden ground.
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Post by Jeremy on Feb 3, 2021 9:38:14 GMT -8
I remember first joining the old forum (during its Buffy-heavy days) back when both Avengers and Cabin in the Woods were playing in theaters and drawing rave reviews from critics and audiences. At the time, there was a lot of talk about how these films were a sign that Joss Whedon had hit the big time and was about to embark on a long, successful, and innovative career in cinema.
These predictions did... not quite pan out.
I can't say The Nevers looks particularly groundbreaking, but I'm legitimately curious to - finally! - see if and how Whedon's work changes when not on a broadcast network. Even if writing superhero teams has become his comfort zone at this point.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Feb 3, 2021 9:58:29 GMT -8
I remember first joining the old forum (during its Buffy-heavy days) back when both Avengers and Cabin in the Woods were playing in theaters and drawing rave reviews from critics and audiences. At the time, there was a lot of talk about how these films were a sign that Joss Whedon had hit the big time and was about to embark on a long, successful, and innovative career in cinema. These predictions did... not quite pan out. I can't say The Nevers looks particularly groundbreaking, but I'm legitimately curious to - finally! - see if and how Whedon's work changes when not on a broadcast network. Even if writing superhero teams has become his comfort zone at this point. Those were the days. Before Age of Ultron, his wife's allegations, and before Twitter rotted his brain. It's been quite fascinating to witness.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Feb 3, 2021 20:10:15 GMT -8
I remember first joining the old forum (during its Buffy-heavy days) back when both Avengers and Cabin in the Woods were playing in theaters and drawing rave reviews from critics and audiences. At the time, there was a lot of talk about how these films were a sign that Joss Whedon had hit the big time and was about to embark on a long, successful, and innovative career in cinema. These predictions did... not quite pan out. He's Louied himself out of the story of prestige TV. It would almost be sad if it he hadn't brought this upon himself.
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Post by ThirdMan on Feb 3, 2021 23:13:05 GMT -8
Regardless of allegations and Twitter nonsense, it's really not uncommon for a successful TV writer/producer to have one or two big critical/commercial hits, and then not produce anything else that grabs people's attention in the following years. I mean, what have David Chase or Matthew Weiner done of consequence since The Sopranos and Mad Men wrapped up? Even Vince Gilligan had to resort to a spinoff of his most successful series. I'll give David Simon credit for his artistic productivity in television, though.
I haven't paid much attention to what Joss has been attached to, because it would seem he has a creator credit on them, but isn't the genuine showrunner or head writer (it's usually his brother, or someone else). Anyways, I don't have HBO, so it's a moot point: I won't be watching The Nevers.
Joss will be fine regardless: he's a very rich man, and will live very comfortably for the rest of his life. And I'll probably always enjoy -- or at the very least look fondly back on -- his most celebrated work.
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Post by Jeremy on Feb 4, 2021 7:05:01 GMT -8
I think it's more of a comedown in Whedon's case, since he built up multiple cult favorites for years, to the point that even his less-beloved work (like Dollhouse) gained a devoted following. People didn't just love the shows, they loved the guy who made the shows. No TV viewers have ever called themselves "David Chase fans," but you'll find plenty of people who consider themselves Whedon fans.
And when he transitioned to the big screen, it looked like he was going to bring the best of both worlds - blockbuster hits and cult classics. (Remember, he filmed Much Ado About Nothing while he was still working on the first Avengers.) But that fell through pretty quickly, and it's been a steady downward spiral since then. And now for the first time in over a decade, he's got a new TV show where he serves as writer/director/showrunner, and... he quit the series before it even premiered.
Obviously, we can always look fondly back at his earlier work, without which many websites - including this one! - would never have existed. But it's been kind of sad to watch his trajectory in recent years. (Less sad for him then for his many fans, that is.)
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Feb 4, 2021 9:23:49 GMT -8
I think it's more of a comedown in Whedon's case, since he built up multiple cult favorites for years, to the point that even his less-beloved work (like Dollhouse) gained a devoted following. People didn't just love the shows, they loved the guy who made the shows. No TV viewers have ever called themselves "David Chase fans," but you'll find plenty of people who consider themselves Whedon fans. And when he transitioned to the big screen, it looked like he was going to bring the best of both worlds - blockbuster hits and cult classics. (Remember, he filmed Much Ado About Nothing while he was still working on the first Avengers.) But that fell through pretty quickly, and it's been a steady downward spiral since then. And now for the first time in over a decade, he's got a new TV show where he serves as writer/director/showrunner, and... he quit the series before it even premiered. Obviously, we can always look fondly back at his earlier work, without which many websites - including this one! - would never have existed. But it's been kind of sad to watch his trajectory in recent years. (Less sad for him then for his many fans, that is.) Yeah, when your first big hit is one of the best shows ever made...it's sad to watch all that promise go down the drain. Especially because it looked like his career was going strong.
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Post by ThirdMan on Feb 4, 2021 17:59:27 GMT -8
I think it's more of a comedown in Whedon's case, since he built up multiple cult favorites for years, to the point that even his less-beloved work (like Dollhouse) gained a devoted following. People didn't just love the shows, they loved the guy who made the shows. No TV viewers have ever called themselves "David Chase fans," but you'll find plenty of people who consider themselves Whedon fans. And when he transitioned to the big screen, it looked like he was going to bring the best of both worlds - blockbuster hits and cult classics. (Remember, he filmed Much Ado About Nothing while he was still working on the first Avengers.) But that fell through pretty quickly, and it's been a steady downward spiral since then. And now for the first time in over a decade, he's got a new TV show where he serves as writer/director/showrunner, and... he quit the series before it even premiered. Obviously, we can always look fondly back at his earlier work, without which many websites - including this one! - would never have existed. But it's been kind of sad to watch his trajectory in recent years. (Less sad for him then for his many fans, that is.) Yeah, when your first big hit is one of the best shows ever made...it's sad to watch all that promise go down the drain. Especially because it looked like his career was going strong. So, after all of these years, with production values and "auteur" involvement in TV going up so much, you still consider BtVS to be one of the best shows ever made? That's cool. Looking back, I don't feel that too many shows have been able to juggle wit, pathos, and suspense as well (most acclaimed series only contain one or two of those things), but most "prestige" TV these days is fairly accomplished in terms of visual presentation and acting. More "film-like", as it were.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Feb 5, 2021 11:20:49 GMT -8
Yeah, when your first big hit is one of the best shows ever made...it's sad to watch all that promise go down the drain. Especially because it looked like his career was going strong. So, after all of these years, with production values and "auteur" involvement in TV going up so much, you still consider BtVS to be one of the best shows ever made? That's cool. Looking back, I don't feel that too many shows have been able to juggle wit, pathos, and suspense as well (most acclaimed series only contain one or two of those things), but most "prestige" TV these days is fairly accomplished in terms of visual presentation and acting. More "film-like", as it were. Yes. Despite the...shall we say, shoddy presentation at times. And the fact that the mythos isn't exactly the most well thought out that you'll find in fantasy. All those qualities you mentioned are true, and what really puts it over the top are the characters. For 7 seasons the writers managed to keep them fresh, engaging, and interesting. Plus the protagonist is one of the best of her kind. Even in other sci-fi/fantasy shows I like, the protagonists wilt in comparison.
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Post by ThirdMan on Feb 5, 2021 18:29:27 GMT -8
That's cool. Also cool that you're giving the main character her props. I saw some people, back in the day, referring to her as "one-dimensional" in the later seasons because she was suffering from depression. Like, because she wasn't joking around as much, and was more serious overall, somehow that made her one-note. I personally felt she became more nuanced and relatable over time, even during some of her darker, more self-destructive moments.
Anyways, people have strange opinions. It would be enough to say, "her character is bumming me out", but characterizing her as "one-dimensional"? Nah.
And I agree. I found the core cast compelling for show's entire run. Sometimes it got a bit too diluted with peripheral characters, but it always came back to the central characters in the end, IMO.
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Post by Jeremy on Feb 10, 2021 15:32:10 GMT -8
But it's been kind of sad to watch his trajectory in recent years. Oof. So, this has been a... discomforting day for Buffy fans. Charisma Carpenter released a statement accusing Joss of creating a toxic work environment - specifically on Angel, where he apparently pressured and mocked her for her pregnancy. (Stories about Carpenter and why she was written out of Angel have been flying around the internet since 2003, but this is the first time we have a concrete accusation.) Then Amber Benson and Michelle Trachtenberg release brief online statements supporting Carpenter and affirming that Joss did indeed create a hostile environment on Buffy. Sarah Michelle Gellar did not release quite as damning a statement (it seems - understandably - like she's trying to limit her focus in the public eye), but she expressed support for Carpenter as well. Again, these accusations are not as awful as some of the ones we heard about during #MeToo's peak - but it's another heavy blow for all those who once admired this man.
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Post by ThirdMan on Feb 10, 2021 19:21:04 GMT -8
It just seems like he was/is a control-freak, and would belittle and verbally-harass and/or mock people to get his way. Unfortunate.
At any rate, he wasn't exceptionally active, in production terms, since he directed Age of Ultron, and I'm sure he'll be even less so now.
Carpenter will probably get a few more gigs than she would've on account of this as well, even if it's just from people in the entertainment industry reacting sympathetically to this story. Regardless, it's good she finally got this off her chest.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Feb 11, 2021 9:09:59 GMT -8
But it's been kind of sad to watch his trajectory in recent years. Oof. So, this has been a... discomforting day for Buffy fans. Charisma Carpenter released a statement accusing Joss of creating a toxic work environment - specifically on Angel, where he apparently pressured and mocked her for her pregnancy. (Stories about Carpenter and why she was written out of Angel have been flying around the internet since 2003, but this is the first time we have a concrete accusation.) Then Amber Benson and Michelle Trachtenberg release brief online statements supporting Carpenter and affirming that Joss did indeed create a hostile environment on Buffy. Sarah Michelle Gellar did not release quite as damning a statement (it seems - understandably - like she's trying to limit her focus in the public eye), but she expressed support for Carpenter as well. Again, these accusations are not as awful as some of the ones we heard about during #MeToo's peak - but it's another heavy blow for all those who once admired this man. As you said, we didn't just love his shows, many of us respected and admired the man. Though perhaps we should have seen the red flags back in 2002-03, it's very clear that he never deserved a single shred of it. He's not Mel Gibson level....but he is a scumbag nonetheless--and apparently he always has been. I do remember that podcast from last year where James Marsters said that Whedon was so furious that Spike was so well received that he shoved him up against a wall and yelled at him.
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