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Star Wars
Aug 29, 2019 8:42:51 GMT -8
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Post by Zarnium on Aug 29, 2019 8:42:51 GMT -8
No kidding, the story is a mess. I'm sure there's a comic book or something that explains it, but so little is made clear in the actual movie.
Some more points of order:
-The "party composition" at various points throughout the movie makes no sense. Qui-Gon doesn't want to take Padme into town on Tattooine, but he takes JarJar? And why does he take Anakin back to a war zone on Naboo after they reach Coruscant?
-The Queen repeatedly says that her "people are dying" back on Naboo. Erm, how and why? Not only do we see zero evidence that the residents are in imminent danger, but the Trade Federation has no reason whatsoever to indiscriminately mow down civilians anyway. There wasn't even any real military resistance, so military casualties should be zero for most of the film, too. This renders the whole plan to usurp the current Chancellor pointless since there's not actually any time pressure.
-R2-D2 has no purpose in this film at all, and does nothing after his introduction. Almost no one even addresses him or acknowledges his presence for the whole movie. He just follows everyone around for no reason. He was clearly stuck here for fan service and nothing else. Not to mention that his presence renders Obi-Wan's insistence that he doesn't know R2-D2 in A New Hope totally nonsensical.
-The retcon that Anakin created C-3P0 is pointless fanservice, as well.
+On the positive side, the Neimoidians (the green, bug-eyed bad guys) look great. They're pretty lifelike and convincing, considering their prosthetics have a full-face covering. It makes me wish that more of the aliens were physical costumes and puppets rather than CGI.
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Post by Jeremy on Aug 29, 2019 18:32:24 GMT -8
I have not watched Phantom Menace since Revenge of the Sith hit theaters, so my memories are vague. I remember enjoying it well enough, but I was quite young at the time, young enough to not want to throw my shoe at the screen every time JarJar popped up. But I'll assume most of your criticisms are valid.
That said, if you thought the movie was slow and boring - just wait till you revisit Attack of the Clones. That film is among the dullest sci-fi films I've ever watched. (And unlike Phantom, I've inexplicably revisited Clones multiple times.)
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Aug 29, 2019 19:45:43 GMT -8
I have not watched Phantom Menace since Revenge of the Sith hit theaters, so my memories are vague. I remember enjoying it well enough, but I was quite young at the time, young enough to not want to throw my shoe at the screen every time JarJar popped up. But I'll assume most of your criticisms are valid. That said, if you thought the movie was slow and boring - just wait till you revisit Attack of the Clones. That film is among the dullest sci-fi films I've ever watched. (And unlike Phantom, I've inexplicably revisited Clones multiple times.) How to make a cosmic conspiracy + slow descent into an empire boring. Attack of the Clones manages it pretty well. So much potential, wasted.
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Star Wars
Aug 29, 2019 20:08:13 GMT -8
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Post by Zarnium on Aug 29, 2019 20:08:13 GMT -8
Yeah, about that... I just finished Attack of the Clones, and it might be less tolerable than Phantom Menace. Anakin and Padme are just so stiff and cringey, except when Anakin gets into one of his moods and flies into an absurd rage for some stupid reason. Though, part of me can't blame him; Jedi apparently are forbidden from seeing their family members, and aren't supposed to feel love, fear, or anger, so he must be super repressed. This is probably my biggest problem with the prequels; the Jedi are turned into these emotionless drones who have to shun all personal attachments. It's blown way out of proportion from what is presented in the original trilogy. The old nineties pre-prequel "Legends" material had a much more reasonable interpretation of the Jedi when they were fleshing out the universe, Luke even gets married and has a kid eventually. All this weird monastic stuff didn't exist before the prequels.
Plot-wise, it's also very strange that the mysterious commissioning of the clone army is brushed aside without being resolved in this film or the next. I read somewhere that "Sifo Dyas" is a misreading of the script that someone said by mistake, and George Lucas liked how it sounded, so he kept it. It was originally supposed to be "Sido Dyas", which sounds like "Sidious", which would have implied that the army was commissioned by Palpatine in secret. Since the name was changed, this new "Sifo Dyas" character was created, so the old explanation doesn't work, but the plot thread gets dropped.
And the movie is just so slow and boring again. There's less political exposition, but in its place is tons of terrible romantic dialogue. I know I liked these movies as a kid, how did I have more patience for this stuff when I was ten years old?
Also, "Attack of the Clones" is kind of a stupid title. On the iconic opening title crawl, I almost burst out laughing when underneath "Episode II", the words "ATTACK OF THE CLONES" in all caps slowly crept up from the bottom of the screen.
On the positive side, Ewan McGregor does an admirable job with the awful material he's given. Other than that... Um, the score is really good? And the lightsaber fights are pretty cool?
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Star Wars
Sept 4, 2019 15:03:06 GMT -8
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Post by Zarnium on Sept 4, 2019 15:03:06 GMT -8
You know, I just realized that Star Trek Nemesis was released in the same year as Attack of the Clones. Not a great year for either of the quintessential sci-fi franchises.
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Post by Jeremy on Oct 29, 2019 7:36:29 GMT -8
The future of Star Wars is looking a bit hazy - certainly more so than it did five years ago. David Benioff and DB Weiss, previously contracted to kick off the franchise's next trilogy, have parted ways with the studio, becoming the latest in a growing line of recent directors to depart the Star Wars universe.
Disney needs to recalibrate if they want to keep Star Wars relevant and profitable through the 2020s. As Solo proved, the brand name doesn't guarantee big bucks, and with the sequel trilogy drawing to a close, there needs to be a hook beyond "old actors returning to the series" to keep it afloat.
In the meantime, looks like new Star Wars products will be limited to Disney+ TV shows in the early 2020s, as we wait for Rian Johnson to (hopefully) deliver the goods.
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Post by Jay on Oct 29, 2019 9:41:30 GMT -8
I'm not a fan of the franchise but those two departing is likely good news. Those goons did a panel Q&A about their experiences working on Game of Thrones and it's.... something....
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Post by Jeremy on Oct 29, 2019 11:29:17 GMT -8
Somehow, I don't think a lot of folks will be upset about Game of Thrones not being on my "Best of the Decade" list.
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Post by Jay on Oct 29, 2019 11:56:01 GMT -8
Maybe I should shift further discussions over there so as not to veer too much....
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Post by Jeremy on Oct 29, 2019 12:15:43 GMT -8
Oh, I was just making a snarky response.
It is funny how excited people were a Benioff and Weiss Star Wars trilogy was first announced, versus the relieved reaction to the news that they've quit. Guess the Thrones finale reversed a lot of mindsets.
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Post by otherscott on Oct 29, 2019 13:21:19 GMT -8
I think Benioff and Weiss would have made a perfectly fine Star Wars trilogy. For all the issues they had with continuing GRRM's story after they ran out of novels, I think they were very good at the cinematic aspects of making the books come to life.
And to be fair to them, George R.R. Martin is also struggling finding a way to finish the books. So you can't blame them too much when even the actual author seems to have painted his story into a corner.
I maintain that there's a lot of stories you can tell in the Star Wars universe if you find the right voices to tell it. Get Damon Lindelof on that, he'll find something interesting there I'm sure.
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Star Wars
Oct 29, 2019 13:35:32 GMT -8
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Post by ThirdMan on Oct 29, 2019 13:35:32 GMT -8
People put too much stock in series finales and even final seasons: most shows aren't at their best at that point. And you could list just about anyone as heading a new Star Wars trilogy, and be lucky if even half of the fanbase was onboard. I mean, look how aggressively negative many of them are towards TLJ. And they act like Disney ruined the franchise, while ignoring the truly shitty prequels that Lucas produced.
The Q&A with the Game of Thrones showrunners was certainly revealing, but overall, it just confirmed a trend re: writers/directors downplaying the most fantastical elements of fantasy fiction in order to reach a larger, more casual audience. Yeah, those guys certainly have the white-male privilege thing going on, but if they'd delivered at a higher level (writing-wise) with the last few episodes of GoT, nobody would be giving them grief for not altering the direction of their show based on fan complaints. Because "fans" always complain, about bloody well everything, when it comes to long-running series.
Maybe they'll have some non-white female writers head up a new SW trilogy. I'm sure the fanbase will welcome that with open arms.
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Post by Jeremy on Oct 29, 2019 18:47:55 GMT -8
"SW trilogy? More like SJW trilogy!"
I was indifferent to the idea of Benioff and Weiss doing Star Wars, much as I'm largely indifferent to their other work. I'm sure it would have been fine, although I'm frankly hoping for the next Star Wars trilogy, whenever it arrives, to be more than fine.
There are plenty of other voices I'd love to see take a crack at the franchise. I'm still bummed we never got to see Lord and Miller's version of Solo, which would almost certainly have been better than the actual Solo. Lucasfilm is great at hiring talent, but less great at keeping it.
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Star Wars
Oct 29, 2019 21:02:17 GMT -8
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Post by ThirdMan on Oct 29, 2019 21:02:17 GMT -8
I honestly don't care if they ever make another SW film after Episode 9. And I say that as someone who thinks TLJ is second to only TESB, and that Solo was OK.
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Post by Jeremy on Oct 30, 2019 9:47:46 GMT -8
I'll admit my feelings toward Last Jedi have cooled a bit since I first watched it - the Finn/Rose material (particularly on Canto Bight) is pretty forgettable, and the film is about 20 minutes longer than it needs to be. But it's still the most complex and visually interesting film in the franchise, and the Luke/Rey/Kylo scenes are golden.
I'm fine if they decide that Episode IX will be the final Star Wars film, but... let's face it, there's no way it will. Disney will milk this Bantha until... wait, i made that joke already. You get the idea.
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