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Post by Jeremy on Oct 31, 2019 7:07:18 GMT -8
I just started reading Star Wars after Lucas by Dan Golding. In the Introduction, he praises Lucasfilm and Kathleen Kennedy for the way they continually fire directors in order to safeguard the Star Wars brand. In response to the removal of Lord and Miller, he says that the studio has been "distinctly unafraid to be resolute." Lol.
(I think the book was sent to press before Solo bombed at the box office. But it's still unintentionally funny.)
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 15, 2019 12:59:29 GMT -8
We're two episodes into The Mandalorian. So far, the show looks terrific and has some great visuals (plus a unique and dissonant score from Lucas Goransson), and the episodes have been pretty short. (Could the show be another installment in the growing "half-hour drama" category?)
On the downside, it isn't too compelling from a story or character level yet. The lead character is fashioned in the cable antihero mold, but isn't all that compelling (particularly since we don't see his face), and the storyline is unfolding at a languid and deliberate pace. It's not bad, but it's not yet up to the standards I expected given the talent involved.
Anyone else watching? More importantly, anyone else subscribed to Disney Plus? (That last question was a joke... I'm sure you all subscribed the moment it became available. #Disney4eva)
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Star Wars
Nov 15, 2019 13:28:09 GMT -8
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Post by ThirdMan on Nov 15, 2019 13:28:09 GMT -8
I haven't subscribed to Disney Plus. Perhaps I will once Netflix loses the rights to Disney's stuff in a few months, but until then, I'm not sure what the draw is, new-content wise. Mandalorian doesn't seem interesting to me.
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Post by Jeremy on Nov 16, 2019 16:33:24 GMT -8
Disney Plus has over 95% of all Disney films ever made. Plus lots of classic '80s and '90s animated shows (from both Disney Afternoon and Marvel Animation), and every Simpsons episode from 30 seasons (except the one with John Jay Smith).
This streaming service is lab-engineered to me in a way that few others are.
In terms of new content, there isn't much to recommend just yet, although Forky Asks a Question is cute.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 21, 2019 16:43:42 GMT -8
I just want to remind everyone to keep the Rise of Skywalker spoilers confined to this page.
(And your Mandalorian spoilers as well. Though given that Mandalorian is the most predictable show in TV history, spoilers probably aren't much of an issue.)
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 28, 2019 16:29:02 GMT -8
I saw The Rise of Skywalker a couple of nights back. It is... not good.
The story is rushed and choppy, the characterizations feel half-baked, and the whole film lacks any real sense of spectacle or grandeur.
Worst of all, it casts a pall on the trilogy at large. As became obvious when Last Jedi debuted, there was never an overarching plan for the series, so the best we could hope for was a third film which built credibly on the second. But instead, Rise of Skywalker spends much of its time either undoing or ignoring the developments of Last Jedi. It's like each film in this trilogy was dead-set on torching the last. The result is a retrospective mess.
In other news, The Mandalorian had an above-average finale, directed with occasional wonkiness by Taika Waititi. It's still a pretty dumb show that desperately wants you to perceive it as smart, but at least it has the sense to be entertaining most of the time.
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Star Wars
Dec 28, 2019 19:08:23 GMT -8
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Post by ThirdMan on Dec 28, 2019 19:08:23 GMT -8
Yeah, agreed on Rise of Skywalker. Such a shame. Mind you, I don't think the original trilogy had a concrete plan, either. Vader, for instance, was not originally supposed to be Luke's father. And so on.
Interesting that you seem to be far less enthusiastic about The Mandalorian than most other folks, but I guess people who are lukewarm/negative on the new film trilogy need to cling to something to justify their worship of the overall franchise.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 29, 2019 8:04:39 GMT -8
The original trilogy made up some things as it went along, but at least it didn't keep changing hands between two directors who were entirely at odds with each other. Heck, even the prequels at least had a coherent vision, uninteresting though it may have been.
I think the Mandalorian love is sparked in part by people who don't watch a lot of prestige dramas, and thus assume that the show represents an artistic peak of the genre. I guess it's good that a series which thrives so heavily on atmosphere has found such a mass audience, but I wouldn't mind if it put more investment into its story and characters.
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Post by otherscott on Jan 6, 2020 7:14:15 GMT -8
I liked Rise of Skywalker more than you guys did. It's not a reinvention of the wheel or anything, but does a good job wrapping up the series both from a thematic perspective (on legacy and destiny, which is ultimately what the Skywalker Saga is about) while still being enjoyable and entertaining. It's very standard Abrams, not anything that's going to blow you away but also pretty competently done from a pacing and storytelling perspective.
I've come around to the idea that you just could not make Episode IX in the same vein as Episode XIII. I don't believe TLJ was betrayal of Star Wars or anything like that, but it is out of pace with what the saga had been to that point. To end the whole thing on that note would be a little odd and make those who watch the entire thing feel like they are watching one type of series for most of it and then suddenly take a left turn halfway through the last act. I really think they had no choice but to go conventional with this movie. Unfortunately, that means it doesn't really give this movie any reason to exist other than to finish what they probably never should have started.
The more I think about it, the more the mistake here is Episode XII. I know what Disney was trying to do, they were trying to bring Star Wars back in a way that felt like Star Wars. And everyone was so happy to have the real Star Wars back after so much time away that the idea of what direction the next two movies could go was not heavily considered. You couldn't just repeat the previous Episodes IV-VI scene for scene, but you also couldn't go wildly off in a different direction with the last two movies. So they ended up with this weird but really good off the beaten path movie, and this entertaining and competent but ultimately empty movie because they had to wrap up a series that had already been wrapped up. I like that these movies exist because of the existence of The Last Jedi which shows the directions Star Wars can go from here, but as a whole they definitely did not prove that there was any reason that the Skywalker Saga needed to be extended.
Final movie rankings for the series: V - VIII - IV - III - VI - IX - VII - I - II
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Star Wars
Jan 6, 2020 11:50:27 GMT -8
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Post by ThirdMan on Jan 6, 2020 11:50:27 GMT -8
I'll let Jeremy offer any counterpoints, should he so desire. I really don't care enough about the franchise to say anything more than I agree with the ranking of the first two on your list.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Jan 6, 2020 14:32:00 GMT -8
I liked Rise of Skywalker more than you guys did. It's not a reinvention of the wheel or anything, but does a good job wrapping up the series both from a thematic perspective (on legacy and destiny, which is ultimately what the Skywalker Saga is about) while still being enjoyable and entertaining. It's very standard Abrams, not anything that's going to blow you away but also pretty competently done from a pacing and storytelling perspective. I've come around to the idea that you just could not make Episode IX in the same vein as Episode XIII. I don't believe TLJ was betrayal of Star Wars or anything like that, but it is out of pace with what the saga had been to that point. To end the whole thing on that note would be a little odd and make those who watch the entire thing feel like they are watching one type of series for most of it and then suddenly take a left turn halfway through the last act. I really think they had no choice but to go conventional with this movie. Unfortunately, that means it doesn't really give this movie any reason to exist other than to finish what they probably never should have started. The more I think about it, the more the mistake here is Episode XII. I know what Disney was trying to do, they were trying to bring Star Wars back in a way that felt like Star Wars. And everyone was so happy to have the real Star Wars back after so much time away that the idea of what direction the next two movies could go was not heavily considered. You couldn't just repeat the previous Episodes IV-VI scene for scene, but you also couldn't go wildly off in a different direction with the last two movies. So they ended up with this weird but really good off the beaten path movie, and this entertaining and competent but ultimately empty movie because they had to wrap up a series that had already been wrapped up. I like that these movies exist because of the existence of The Last Jedi which shows the directions Star Wars can go from here, but as a whole they definitely did not prove that there was any reason that the Skywalker Saga needed to be extended. Final movie rankings for the series: V - VIII - IV - III - VI - IX - VII - I - II Episode VII was indeed the biggest mistake the franchise has made, I think. The writers of it limited the amount of stories that could be told in order to cram everything back into an OT style conflict. Thankfully TLJ opened up the possibilities once again. But it did have Finn, who was a very interesting character than the next two films royally flubbed. Luke's arc in TLJ was great, at least. Ranking: 5>4>>>>>>6>8>7>>>>>>>>9>3>1>2. I only really like the first two, honestly.
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Post by Jeremy on Jan 7, 2020 19:45:37 GMT -8
It's true that the seeds for the trilogy's problems were planted back when the trilogy began. There was never an overarching plan, which is why Lucasfilm was perfectly fine with having Johnson tear down the story that Abrams built up.
Although Last Jedi remains one of my favorite Star Wars films, I'd have to say it works much better as an individual film than as the second act in a trilogy (in which it doesn't really work at all). I respect Johnson's work, but Kathleen Kennedy should have offered a few more production notes.
I disagree about TRoS being competent from a pacing/storytelling perspective - I found it pretty messy on both counts. The film had an impossible task in trying to reconcile Episodes VII and VIII, but the script felt jumpy and erratic. I'd rank the films as V - VIII - IV - III - VII - VI - IX - I - II.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 19, 2020 16:54:35 GMT -8
I was lukewarm on its first season, but The Mandalorian has really grown on me in S2. The story picks up, there's a greater emphasis on developing a strong character ensemble, and the scale and scope of the action scenes and special effects continues to grow. It's one of the more visually interesting sci-fi shows I've seen in years, and while it may still not be especially deep, it knows how to keep things moving (and keep the episodes to a tight pace - usually 35-40 minutes each).
Also, unlike a certain recent trilogy, the writers appear to know where the story is going across multiple seasons, rather than making things up on the fly. Having a single writer (Jon Favreau) overseeing everything has turned out to be a shockingly good idea.
At some point, the TV franchise (much like the Star Wars film franchise) may run itself into the ground - at least two spinoffs have been announced, along with a half-dozen other SW television projects. But right now, Mandalorian is one of the best things to come out of Star Wars' Disney era.
(Certainly it's the best original series on Disney Plus so far, since most of the competition - The Right Stuff, Muppets Now - has been rather mediocre. We'll see if things pick up next year with the Marvel shows.)
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Post by Jeremy on Feb 10, 2022 7:40:52 GMT -8
I'm waffling on The Book of Boba Fett. It's technically quite bad on multiple levels - rambling story, distinct lack of narrative focus or purpose (other than "continue carrying the Star Wars banner") and it unfortunately defangs a fan-favorite character, turning him into a bit of a wimp. (Temuera Morrison does his best, but he's at least 15 years too old for the part.)
But while the first half of the season is mostly a slog, the last three episodes take the show into a largely unexpected new direction, foreshadowing some interesting directions for both the show and onscreen Star Wars productions as a whole. It's still tough to call these last few episodes "good" (and they threaten to overdose on fanservice), but they set an intriguing template for future shows in the franchise to follow.
The Star Wars film series is currently stuck in neutral - between the behind-the-scenes incompetence of the sequel trilogy and the box-office flop of Solo, it may be several year before we get another big-screen production in the franchise. The TV shows, to their credit, are doing some creative things with the characters and their universe. Now we just need them to be good.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Feb 15, 2022 18:52:57 GMT -8
I think the truly despicable thing about The Book of Boba Fett is that it's making people say mean things about Robert Rodriguez, who must be the most talented person involved with this show by far.
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