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Post by Incandescence 112 on Mar 25, 2017 17:00:26 GMT -8
This happened a couple weeks ago, but the DS9 retrospective documentary, "What We Left Behind" is going to be filmed. The majority of the cast and crew is going to reflect on the changing legacy of DS9, as most people who watch it today (like myself) recognize its greatness, and easily the best Star Trek show, as well as outlining an 8th season. It wasn't necessary, but I wouldn't have minded, both to spend more time with the characters and to actually see Bajor enter the Federation. It sounds pretty interesting.
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Post by Jeremy on Mar 25, 2017 18:09:25 GMT -8
Wow, that sounds pretty cool. I look forward to checking it out.
I also plan to start reading the DS9 paperbacks (which take place post-series) pretty soon. They're still being published to this day.
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Post by Zarnium on Mar 25, 2017 18:22:50 GMT -8
Wow, that sounds pretty cool. I look forward to checking it out. I also plan to start reading the DS9 paperbacks (which take place post-series) pretty soon. They're still being published to this day. I read a couple a long time ago, though I was a bit confused, because there are so many concurrent story threads weaving through them I wasn't sure where I needed to start or what order I needed to read them in to understand any of it. One of them featured Ro Laren working on DS9 and butting heads with Kira, though. That was pretty neat.
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Post by Jeremy on Mar 25, 2017 19:53:45 GMT -8
One of them featured Ro Laren working on DS9 and butting heads with Kira, though. That was pretty neat. That does sound neat. Largely because Kira was only created for DS9 as a substitute for Ro Laren.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Mar 25, 2017 22:54:45 GMT -8
Are there any Garak ones? If so......I must have them. Also, they asked for 170,000 on KickStarter, and got over 600,000, so the length is going to be much longer than it would have. I'm really looking forward to this. There's some snippets on YouTube (I love this video so much, link) of what's going to be featured in this documentary, but nothing this in depth. And even though he's not a main cast member, Jeffery Combs is going to be in it a lot. More Jeffery Combs is always a good thing. Prepare for lots of Weyoun jokes.
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Post by Jeremy on Mar 26, 2017 5:44:04 GMT -8
I've lately been reading "A Stitch in Time," which details Garak's past. And it's written by Andrew Robinson himself!
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Mar 26, 2017 9:57:11 GMT -8
I've lately been reading "A Stitch in Time," which details Garak's past. And it's written by Andrew Robinson himself! Oh, you did mention that before. If it has those juicy Garak lines ("I've never been pyschoanalyzed by a Romulan before. Thank you for this enlightening experience!"), then I'll definitely check it out.
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Post by bean32 on Apr 1, 2017 7:42:48 GMT -8
Skimmed this to avoid any spoilers. Really excited for a DS9 retrospective!
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Apr 1, 2017 9:10:15 GMT -8
Time to finish up recaps! Been a while. "A Time To Stand"-The opening moments of "A Time To Stand" set the stage for the entirety of the Dominion War arc-dark compelling, and unlike any Trek you've ever seen (Discovery, I'm assuming you're focusing on the Battle of Axanar, so please be like this!). The ending of Season 5 was so great because of how ambitious it was. How many shows back then had the balls to shatter the status quo like that, even for six episodes? "A Time to Stand" follows through on the promises set by "Call to Arms"-our heroes are not going to get out of this one easy. Sisko and the crew are despondent when we catch up with them, and Odo, Kira, Quark (and Jake, he stayed behind, because he's an idiot) aren't doing much better. Sisko is allowed a minor victory at the end of the episode, but he crashes. Odo and Kira aren't really, but it doesn't matter. This episode isn't about the plot. It's about the toll the war is taking on the characters, and by focusing on that more than special effects, "A Time to Stand" becomes great. A very strong way to get the ball rolling. 100/100"Rocks and Shoals"-The best part of this episode for me is the parallels between Kira and the Jem'Hadar. Third Remata'Klan (and probably the rest of them) know they have to follow their nature, even if that means walking into a suicide mission. Kira only figures it out by the end, but she has to fight the new occupation. Anyway, the plot starts out just fine, but nothing special, a mix between "To the Death" and "The Ship". The crew crash on a desert planet in the middle of nowhere, and they send Nog and Garak to find water. They get captured, (because it turns out some Jem'Hadar also crashed there) and are brought to the Vorta, Keevan. Keevan demands an audience with Sisko, and he reveals that the Jem'Hadar are almost out of ketracel white, and he plans to have them killed by Sisko and co., in exchange for his release. From there, the question becomes, are there rules in war, when your enemy wouldn't do the same for you? How badly do they want to get out of here? Not coincidentally, it's also when the episode becomes a standout for the series. The interaction between Sisko and the third are the best parts of the episode, aside from Kira's story. We never learn the third's full story, but by the end the two reach an understanding and maybe even learn to respect each other a little bit. It just makes it all the more powerful when the episode reaches its inevitable conclusion. Sisko feels bad after this? Ha. He hasn't seen anything yet. Speaking of Kira's story, it's a bit on-the-nose. A Vedek is planning a protest against Dukat. Kira tries to stop her, because she thinks it's in their best interests to leave well enough alone for now, and the Vedek agrees-instead of protesting, she hangs herself on the Promenade. Suddenly, everything snaps into focus for Kira. Of course she has to resist. Of course it was that simple! If she doesn't the Dominion have won. 100/100"Sons and Daughters"-Uggggghhh. Why? Not only did they bring back everyone's favorite TNG character, Alexander, but also aged him like 10 years in 3.5. Makes sense. The plot is competent enough, and Alexander himself isn't as bad as he was before, but watching him get his ass kicked by other Klingons isn't nearly as compelling as the first two episodes. The drama between Worf and his son didn't click for me either-yeah, Worf was a pretty bad father, but Alexander was always poorly written and annoying, so I don't really care. It's a decent episode, but a massive comedown. 70/100 "Behind the Lines"-That's more like it. "Behind the Lines" mainly focuses on Kira's resistance cell back on DS9, which follows through from her development in "Rocks and Shoals". Four people (Kira, Rom, Jake, and Odo) sitting around, talking about how to strike a blow against the Dominion, a galaxy spanning conqueror with infinite resources. The odds feel properly stacked against them. Quark also becomes a lot more than the friendly bartender when he tricks Damar, who loves Kanaar a little too much (that rhymes! ) into giving him some vital information. While Quark becomes more affiliated with the resistance, Odo starts slipping when the female Founder shows up. She claims she has come to give him more knowledge of the Link, but what she really means is that she's come to turn him against the resistance. Because Odo's a flawed character-he has a rigid sense of justice, but when it comes to his people it's pretty easy to exploit him, she succeeds. Odo fails to come through at a critical moment, and pretty much dooms the resistance. When Kira angrily confronts him, he responds with utter apathy. It's easy to hate Odo here, but he linked with the female changeling because of how lonely he is, but it's still unsettling just how quickly he agrees to link. His need for a home overrides his obligations to his friends. Now I see that earlier in the episode when she insisted that he refuse the link, she was entirely right. 90/100 "Favor the Bold"-The first of a two parter that closes out the six part story that opened the season (not as complicated as it sounds), it's a fast paced and thrilling episode. Everything in "Favor the Bold" has me glued to the screen. It's perfect sci-fi storytelling, balancing compelling character beats with a fast paced plot. The minefield is coming down, and Sisko makes a daring plan to retake the station. Sisko's section of the episode is simple, and it works. The tension feels palpable, the climax to the story that began with "Call to Arms" is fast approaching. All hell's about to break loose (which it does next episode). The episode once again demonstrates that this arc is more about how the war affects the characters, more than it is about the war and plot itself (it also helps that the plot is thrillingly well constructed, but whatever). Every action that happens feels real. Sisko and the Defiant crew is fed up of the Dominion always having an upper hand. They need to raise crew morale. Kira somehow doesn't strangle Odo, who comes off as extremely creepy in this episode. The moment the female changeling said the solids need to broken of their desire for freedom, he should have cut her off. However, Kira's extremely pissed off at him, and she's worried that Rom's death will be on her conscience because of Odo. She tries to reason with Weyoun, but he doesn't budge, so her anger feels just as real as her anger with Odo. Also, speaking of Weyoun, even his perspective makes sense. Jeffery Combs is fantastic at making Weyoun a character that we love to hate, but Rom can obviously ruin the Dominion's plans. Quark's cleverness really comes through here, as he continues his deception of Damar, and finds a way to warn Starfleet through.........Morn. Morn and Quark together saved the Alpha Quadrant. Other characters fare well here. Ziyal is angry at Dukat for not releasing Rom, but she's still blind to how much of a monster he is. Fitting with Dukat's character, who always needs someone by him to acknowledge his greatness, he focuses on getting back in her good graces. His conversation with Damar shows how desperate he is for approval. Something big's coming for every character, and with how many characters Deep Space Nine has, that's quite an accomplishment. 95/100 "Sacrifice of Angels"-The absolute perfect way to resolve this storyline. Every big character moment promised in the preceding 5 episodes was delivered. Sisko did whatever it took to save the galaxy. Kira's resistance finally succeeded (almost) Odo full on rejected the female changeling and the Link, and Quark finally took action and even shot two Jem'Hadar. Ziyal finally rejects Dukat, until she's killed by Damar, which proves a critical moment for Dukat's character from the beginning of the series-he finally snaps. This is where his character really ends, along with "Waltz". Aside from character, my word, that space battle! So many starships firing at each other that a few good hits will destroy one. This outdoes Babylon 5, Stargate, Star Wars, and Battlestar not just in effects, which totally hold up 20 years later, but in clearly allowing us to follow the spectacle. Ships that look like the Enterprise+the Defiant+Klingons=good. Anything else=bad. Just everything about that space battle was absolute perfection. There's a 'flaw' with this episode that people bring up all the time, the supposed 'deus ex machina' that occurs when Sisko convinces the Prophets to intervene on the behalf of Bajor. I strongly disagree-what the Prophets did in this episode lines up with how they were established in "Rapture". The conclusion feels a bit anticlimactic on the surface, but it works upon deeper thought. An excellent conclusion to an excellent story arc. 100/100
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Post by bean32 on Apr 1, 2017 14:46:20 GMT -8
Glad that you'll be reviewing DS9 again. I'm almost done the series and did read through some of your Season 1-5 reviews. Season 6 definitely upped the stakes.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Apr 1, 2017 16:35:03 GMT -8
Thanks Major. Or should I say Colonel?
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Post by bean32 on Apr 7, 2017 15:55:57 GMT -8
Finished DS9. What a ride that was. Overall, I thought it was great. Had some flaws, but did a great job tackling some complex issues that are extremely relevant to today.
Major Spoilers Below.
On the finale, I felt like everyone had a satisfying conclusion. I do wish there was more Quark in those last stretch of episodes. I understand he didn't have much a place in the war, but still. That was the only slightly disappointing thing for me. And for Sisko's fate....I couldn't help but think of The Visitor when they had that final shot of Jake. I did think that last shot was perfect since a lot of show was about the father/son relationship. Now that I think of it, I do wish there was more Jake in this last season. I loved his character.
Kai Winn may be on of the most infuriating TV characters, but never the less, fascinating.
Off the top of my head, season rankings
1. 6 (duh) 2. 5 3.7 4.4 5.3 6.2 7.1
Another satisfying aspect is that the show gets better as it progresses. And ends on a pretty good note. I'll come up with my favorite episodes list soon. I agree with the general consensus, that the show really takes off when the war plot becomes the focus. I did appreciate those early episodes because of the characters. I did feel attached to them, and was worried about them during those final 7 episodes. Killing off Jadzia did not help. That choice was baffling to me, though I am aware of some of the behind-the-scenes drama that was happening with actress. Just made me hate Gul Dukat even more.
Speaking of, if I ever want to make myself physically ill, I'll just watch the episode with Gul Dukat and Kai Winn post-coital. It's kind of perfect that these two wind up teaming up at the end given their story arches.
Now to more important things. Do I like Star Trek: Next Generation or Deep Space Nine more? I thought this answer would be easy because on paper, Deep Space Nine is more to my taste. However, I loved Next Generation and did miss some of the high concept episodes the show did so well with. I almost can't compare, them because they are two totally different experiences.
Should I watch Voyager? I've gotten mixed opinions on this.
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Post by Zarnium on Apr 7, 2017 17:41:34 GMT -8
Should I watch Voyager? I've gotten mixed opinions on this. By and large, Voyager is not nearly as good as DS9 or TNG. It has a few standout episodes, but the writing generally feels very amateurish compared to the other two, the tone feels awfully light for how dark the show's concept is, and the main cast is pretty weak, both in terms of the actual characters as well as the acting. It's at least entertaining on a regular basis, but I'd only recommend it to dedicated Star Trek fans who really want to spend more time in the universe after they've seen all the better stuff. I will say that "The Thaw" is probably the best episode and is on par with some of TNG's better offerings, and if you like Q, there are three episodes featuring him that cap off his story. ("Death Wish," "The Q and the Grey," "Q2.") There's also an episode with the Ferengi called "False Profits" which is a lot like a classic DS9 Ferengi episode. I'd recommend watching those five, and if you're going to do that you might as well watch the premiere "Caretaker" first just to understand the central concept of the show.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Apr 7, 2017 22:05:14 GMT -8
I think Zarnium's being a bit kind to the regular cast actually. Personally, I had no attachment to any of them. Even the Doctor and Seven, who were the most well written.
The writers of Voyager deliberately avoided going outside their comfort zone, so the status quo of the series literally stays the exact same, from beginning to end. The main cast is indistinguishable from Season 1 to 7. Overall, though, it's mostly mediocre sci-fi that's impressive from a production standpoint but never reaches that extra something to truly leave a lasting impact, like DS9 had. I'd personally recommend Farscape (Bosc will back me up).
The only big problem I had with the final arc was the Dukat/Winn resolution, but it doesn't take up much screen time. Overall, I'd say that whole final arc, and the series as a whole,was resounding success. I found I wasn't ready to say goodbye to everyone yet at the end, which is always how it is with my favorite tv shows imo. The thing you should miss most is the characters.
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Quiara
Grade School
Posts: 775
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Post by Quiara on Apr 17, 2017 18:20:39 GMT -8
I'd personally recommend Farscape (Bosc will back me up). Yes, I will. With the reservation I never watched the show's fourth season. And that it's kind of silly. I usually recommend it to people suffering from Firefly withdrawal (which is sort of like encouraging someone to get over their marijuana addiction by trying heroin) but it's a fantastic piece of science fiction with some genuinely touching episodes, a really good ensemble cast, and genuinely alien-looking aliens. It also has a fantastic romance between the male and female leads, which I certainly would not have expected going in, but John and Aeryn are a really fascinating couple, especially from a feminist perspective (!?!?) Its weakness is being incredibly hit-or-miss; for instance, the first five episodes of the show's second season contain the two worst episodes of the entire show followed by two of the best episodes of science fiction I've ever seen. And there's not a clear path through the show where you watch just the standalones or just the arc episodes because the quality fluctuates so rapidly. Even the show's worst episodes are stylish, though, so you could watch all 88 and not feel like you wasted your time.
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