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Post by Jeremy on Sept 9, 2017 17:13:50 GMT -8
Between Bojack, IT, and American Horror Story, this is not a good week to be a clown. I'll be watching it this weekend. Incidentally, Bojack is the only show I've ever felt the need to binge-watch so quickly in as few sittings as possible. I normally hate doing that and won't watch the same show more than two episodes in a row (four for half-hour lengths), but Bojack seems like it improves greatly from being watched in such a condensed timeframe. Not sure what to make of that, honestly. Could just be that I almost never watch streaming originals, so the shows I usually watch aren't intended to be binged. Same here. The most bingeable shows, from my perspective, are serialized animated series. They're easy to take in visually, and have a hook to keep me going. Also, as I've explained elsewhere, I don't find a lot of "bingeable" TV to be all that bingeable. Bojack is the rare streaming original show that's worth binging because each episode has its own identity, and they don't all blend together into some formless TV soup.
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Post by Zarnium on Sept 10, 2017 6:36:59 GMT -8
My biggest problem with season 4 is that the Mr. Peanutbutter running for Governor story defuses in the middle of the season without seeing it through far enough to cause a lasting effect on the characters. From where it was heading initially, it looked like at some point, there was going to be an event that caused Mr. Peanutbutter to lose his happy-go-lucky demeanor and dive ruthlessly into the campaign, permanently driving a wedge between him and Diane. As it is, it comes right to that tipping point, but then Mr. Peanutbutter decides to drop out and their relationship goes back into stasis. It's not all butterflies and roses from then on, but it's not really anything more significant than what we've seen before with them, either. Like, the "Belle room" scene at the end is basically the same thing they already went through with the pool full of Jello, and it ends with the two of them airing the same complaints they've always had. This has me worried that their story has reached a point where it can't easily progress, since the writers have already given up the most obvious opportunity to have their relationship implode. Well, maybe I'm just being too cynical; maybe not everyone on the show has to be totally self-destructive and miserable, and that's the point of Diane and Mr. Peanutbutter's relationship.
I did like everything about Bojack, Hollyhock, and Beatrice's story, showing the domino effect that four generations of terrible behavior and destructive societal norms has had on the Horseman/Sugarman line. (Well, three generations, technically.) All those flashback scenes were done really well, and add a lot to the whole picture of why Bojack is so screwed up. Given how much of a terrible influence Bojack has been on the last two daughter figures in his life, I was expecting his relationship with Hollyhock to turn out similarly, but I was pleasantly surprised to see that Bojack did not royally screw up beyond repair for once. He tried his best to be a good father, her overdosing on drugs was not directly his fault, and he worked hard to find out who her mother was and get that information to her even after he was sure he'd never see her again. He was not perfect or blameless, but both he and Hollyhock end the season with a smile on their face, ultimately coming out of their time together better and happier than when they began. That's a far cry from the self-indulgent and toxic behavior he's shown with every other relationship he's had, particularly Sarah Lynn and Penny. Perhaps there is hope for him to change yet?
Princess Carolyn's story was also really good, and gives us insight into exactly why she hasn't married and started a family yet, despite that being one of her major life goals. She's afraid to entirely commit in case something goes wrong, so she leaves backdoors into all her relationships that allow her to retreat when things get difficult, making the destruction of her relationships a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'll be interrested to see where this goes next season, and if she gets back together with Ralph.
Todd's story doesn't really amount to much of any significance, but I found the whole clown dentist thing to be hilarious, and it's nice that he found a potential girlfriend at the end who shares his sexual identity. Though I'm still wondering how an axolotl is breathing air.
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Post by ThirdMan on Sept 10, 2017 11:39:42 GMT -8
Yeah, I thought the Mr. Peanutbutter/Diane story was already spinning its wheels in Season 3. And Todd is still my least favourite regular.
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Post by Jeremy on Sept 10, 2017 13:41:26 GMT -8
And Todd is still my least favourite regular. I'm guessing you didn't care for the episode titled "Hooray! Todd Episode!" I agree with Zarnium's breakdown. I was especially happy with Princess Carolyn's arc - I think this may have been her most interesting season yet. "Time's Arrow" (sorry, Tim, whoever you are) is an excellent episode on many levels, with its dementia-induced flashbacks being some of the most evocative I've ever seen on a TV series. Just when we thought there was nothing further to be learned about Bojack's past, here's a whole new story that demands telling. Great stuff. As usual, the cast remains first-rate, and the jokes are spot-on. (My favorite: The "Bielist" perfume, and Diane's reaction to it.) I continually admire the show's commitment to its running gags, which heightens the distorted sense of realism. If I have one complaint, it's with "Thoughts and Prayers." While it's an interesting spin on the gun-control debate, I'm growing a bit weary of this show's need to do a "very special episode" midway through every season. The characters always end up taking a backseat to the message, and the message itself doesn't add much to the overall story. It's not bad per se, but it's never been where Bojack shines.
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Post by Zarnium on Sept 10, 2017 15:10:13 GMT -8
Personally, I love Todd and his misadventures. He keeps the show from being too relentlessly dark while allowing the other characters to avoid comedy scenes at times when it wouldn't fit with their arcs. If I have one complaint, it's with "Thoughts and Prayers." While it's an interesting spin on the gun-control debate, I'm growing a bit weary of this show's need to do a "very special episode" midway through every season. The characters always end up taking a backseat to the message, and the message itself doesn't add much to the overall story. It's not bad per se, but it's never been where Bojack shines. I think it was less of a "very special episode" and more of a jab at the way the entertainment industry dances around trying to be sensitive to current events while only being motivated by the bottom line. Also kind of a parody of overly-dramatic opinion articles like the one Diane writes. I don't think there was any real comment on gun control or gun violence one way or the other. By the way, I calculated that driving to Hawaii from Los Angeles on a straight bridge at a constant 65 MPH would take about 40 hours of driving, so about a four day trip. Given that there was a traffic jam with stop and go traffic, if that's constant, it could take more like four months of driving. Hope they loaded up their phones with a lot of podcasts!
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Post by Jeremy on Sept 10, 2017 15:50:03 GMT -8
I think it was less of a "very special episode" and more of a jab at the way the entertainment industry dances around trying to be sensitive to current events while only being motivated by the bottom line. Also kind of a parody of overly-dramatic opinion articles like the one Diane writes. I don't think there was any real comment on gun control or gun violence one way or the other. It was trying to be satirical, yes, but it's tough to be satirical with such an uneasy topic. Bojack works so well because its plotting and framework are usually a step removed from reality, so the resulting character drama hits us in a way we're not used to or prepared for. But the basic premise of "Thoughts and Prayers" is a direct reflection of a sad reality, and it's thus not quite as effective. For comparison's sake, The Carmichael Show did an episode about mass shootings a few months ago, and it was really good. Because TCS is topical by nature and always has both feet in reality, it can discuss these topics in a way that many other shows cannot. (Also, can someone please un-cancel The Carmichael Show?)
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Post by ThirdMan on Sept 10, 2017 18:53:38 GMT -8
I don't think Aaron Paul gives a sincere, convincing performance as Todd. Every line reading seems totally vacant to me. Yes, even more so than your typical stoner. He's just trying too hard to offer up an exaggerated "cartoon" vocal delivery, and it feels forced to me. And it's just too repetitive and formulaic, with Todd always coming up with harebrained schemes. I feel very little for him.
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Post by Jeremy on Sept 10, 2017 19:47:08 GMT -8
I actually find some of Todd's line readings funny because of how wide-eyed Paul's delivery is. "Todd? As a millionaire? That's going to lead to some interesting stories!" is one my favorite lines and deliveries on the whole show.
He's easily the show's least serious character, but it's comforting to know that not everyone on Bojack is spiraling into an empty void.
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Post by ThirdMan on Sept 10, 2017 21:09:44 GMT -8
It may just be that I find the performance too self-conscious.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Sept 11, 2017 13:56:27 GMT -8
And Todd is still my least favourite regular. If I have one complaint, it's with "Thoughts and Prayers." While it's an interesting spin on the gun-control debate, I'm growing a bit weary of this show's need to do a "very special episode" midway through every season. The characters always end up taking a backseat to the message, and the message itself doesn't add much to the overall story. It's not bad per se, but it's never been where Bojack shines. Usually I'd agree with that. All of these types of episodes that I've seen recently try to tackle current issues feel like after school specials (except for Brooklyn Nine-Nine's "Moo Moo"), and preachy and naive as hell. That wasn't the case with "Hank After Dark" or "Brrap Brrap Pew Pew", and I don't think it's the case with "Thoughts and Prayers". It was hilarious and insightful (if not revelatory), even if it was probably the weakest episode of this type so far. On another note, I think you should add this show to the "CT-worthy" list after it finishes airing. It's so f*cking good!!!
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Post by Jeremy on Sept 11, 2017 15:39:12 GMT -8
Yeah, Bojack would be a great fit for CT once it wraps.
Truth be told, there are a lot of currently-airing shows that fit the standard CT criteria. The "CT-worthy" label was kind of special back when Mike introduced it nearly a decade ago, but deep character-driven TV is everywhere now.
(Which is a good thing, of course.)
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Sept 13, 2017 17:16:46 GMT -8
I'll write more about Season Four when I have the time. For now, I'll just say that it didn't hold together quite as well as S3, but it still left the impact it wanted to. Lots of great moments, and "Tim's Arrow" is easily a Top 5 episode. I now feel confident in calling Bojack the best animated show of this decade, and perhaps one of the best animated shows ever. When do we get Season Five? I mean, you say that, and then Rick and Morty drops "The Ricklantis Experiment" on us, quite possibly topping "Total Rickall" as the best episode of the entire show. The Wire, Rick and Morty style (AKA not boring). Not to get involved with fan wars or anything stupid like that, but it'd be a tough call for me.
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Post by Jeremy on Sept 13, 2017 17:29:23 GMT -8
I don't know if I'd call "The Ricklantis Experiment" the best Rick and Morty episode, but it does highlight how incredibly ambitious the show is. And it's pretty much the most insane episode the show's ever done (that is, y'know, until the next one).
I'm quite enjoying this season of R&M, which has thus far been more consistent than the first two. But I'd still place it a firm second behind Bojack as far as current animated series go. Rick and Morty can be quite brilliant at times, but it's a little too frenetic for the darker and more dramatic material to jell with me the way Bojack's does.
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Post by ThirdMan on Sept 13, 2017 20:38:02 GMT -8
Flamepillar, you think The Wire is boring?
Anyways, this season of R&M has been ambitious, but the episodes feel pretty disconnected from one another. It's like Harmon and Roiland don't know how many of these they have in them, or how long the show will run, so they're just throwing every dark and crazy idea at the wall to see what sticks, the only notable throughline being Rick's misanthropy and nihilism. I'd say it's more unpredictable than Bojack, but less cogent. But I admire, and enjoy, the ambition. It's not really spinning its wheels like some of the character arcs on Bojack (I'm lookin' at you, Mr. PB and Diane).
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Sept 14, 2017 7:09:12 GMT -8
Flamepillar, you think The Wire is boring? For large parts of Seasons 1, 2 and 5, absolutely. That's just called standalone tv. I kind of see what you're saying, but it doesn't really bother me at all.
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