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Post by bean32 on Sept 16, 2017 6:41:07 GMT -8
Rick and Morty seems to place exploring a sci-fi concept (or subverting it at times) above character development. Even though there is character development. A lot of their ideas remind me of Star Trek Next Gen episodes. And that show had many stand alone episodes. The impact of Beth's and Jerry's divorce was a consistent plot line, though they haven't touched it these past two episodes. I'm hoping they revisit it.
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Post by Jeremy on Jan 9, 2018 10:42:19 GMT -8
Well, this is interesting. Bojack is currently being shopped around to cable networks for syndication. That means people who don't have Netflix subscriptions may still be able to watch the show.
I don't expect other Netflix shows to follow this example - Bojack is an anomaly in that its production compant (Tornante) was able to retain syndication rights. So most other Netflix shows will probably remain Internet-only.
But still, an interesting development.
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Post by Jeremy on Jun 27, 2018 15:30:47 GMT -8
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Post by Jeremy on Sept 5, 2018 7:12:36 GMT -8
The Season 5 trailer is out. Not much revealed beyond a basic story arc, but I'm already hoping for a lot of When Harry Met Sally posters. Also, for those of you without Netflix subscriptions who are interested in checking out the show, Season One premieres on Comedy Central September 26th. (Right after the South Park season premiere.)
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Post by Zarnium on Sept 5, 2018 16:10:01 GMT -8
I just want to know what's up with that shot of Todd with a hand for a head.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Sept 7, 2018 6:29:20 GMT -8
The reviews are in, and apparently Season 5 of Bojack is another knockout season. This show is on a four-season long hot streak. Impressive, to say the least.
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Post by Jeremy on Sept 7, 2018 13:00:12 GMT -8
Only a few reviews out so far, but they are indeed quite promising. I also note with some joy that American Vandal Season 2 is also getting a strong critical response. Maybe 2018 TV is finally picking up.
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Post by Jeremy on Sept 14, 2018 14:08:28 GMT -8
"Free Churro" may actually be the best episode that Bojack has ever done. And for a show that's produced "Fish Out of Water," that's saying something.
More thoughts on Season Five in a day or two.
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Post by Zarnium on Sept 14, 2018 14:19:56 GMT -8
Geez, did you already watch the whole thing?
I start tonight, provided I'm not too tired when I get back home!
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Post by Jeremy on Sept 14, 2018 14:31:57 GMT -8
As I recall, watching a full season of Bojack in a day is colloquially known as "pulling a Jeremy."
(But no, I've only seen the first half so far. I expect many others will finish the season before I do.)
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Post by ThirdMan on Sept 14, 2018 20:03:40 GMT -8
I just watched the first two eps today. I'll probably finish the season by Monday.
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Post by Zarnium on Sept 15, 2018 19:52:35 GMT -8
More detailed thoughts later, but... I dunno, this might have been the weakest season. It's not bad, but it feels very disjointed, and doesn't cover much new ground. It does have some pretty insightful commentary on the #MeToo phenomenon, though.
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Post by Jeremy on Sept 16, 2018 6:02:33 GMT -8
I now feel confident in calling Bojack the best animated show of this decade, and perhaps one of the best animated shows ever. When do we get Season Five? ONE YEAR LATER: Yep, Bojack Horseman is one of the best animated shows ever. I thought this season was fantastic. It wasn't quite as arc-heavy as some of the earlier seasons, but it had some of the best and most thrillingly experimental episodes the show has ever done. (It probably would work better as a weekly series than a binge, but the story was still effective when viewed through the latter method.) It's fitting that the season ties in so well with the #MeToo movement, since Bojack has always kept one foot (hoof?) in the darker and seedier side of Hollywood. Other shows that have tried to comment on the movement often feel jarring or facile, but Bojack knows how to handle the issue with care, emotion, and humor. And as always, it doesn't flinch when it comes to dealing with the heavier stuff.
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Post by Zarnium on Sept 16, 2018 7:43:55 GMT -8
What I didn't like about it is that it doesn't feel like there's as much continuity between individual episodes or with prior season as there should be, which is partly the fault of how season 4 ended as well. It's also pretty inconsistent with which events it considers to be significant and which it doesn't.
For example, season 5 opens pretty quickly with the reveal that Diane and Mr. Peanutbutter are getting divorced. If this is the case, then why did season 4 end with them making up and putting their relationship back into the status quo? They went through the most trying period of their marriage during season 4, but that plotline wasn't used as a means to break them up. Instead, their breakup is put off until the next season, and the catalyst is never revealed. This makes the already unsatisfying conclusion to their plotline in season 4 pointless, while also weakening the beginning of their season 5 plotline.
There's also the inconsistent use of Skip's character; In the opening episode, he's a manipulative, vindictive jerk who doesn't respect others' boundaries, and he essentially sexually assaults Bojack at one point. After that episode, he's just a harmless goofus who is used for comic relief. So why was his character so dark in the first episode? I got the impression at the beginning that he was going to do something unconscionable to Bojack at some point, and the tables would be flipped and Bojack would be the victim for once, which would be an interesting twist. Instead, none of that momentum is ever used again, which makes me wonder why it existed to begin with.
Furthermore, while "Free Churro" was indeed a great episode that does justice to the storyline with Bojack's mother from the previous season, it's a little weird that her death or impending death was never mentioned before that episode that I recall. As a comparison, in season 1 with Herb's death, for multiple episodes leading up to "The Telescope," there were several mentions that Herb was going to die soon and Bojack wanted to speak with him before it happened, and it both colored his actions before the episode, and built-up suspense for when the episode actually came. The plotline wasn't crammed into one episode with no lead-up.
Philbert's cancellation is also somewhat underwhelming. It's not cancelled because Bojack's incidents with Penny or with Gina are made public, or because he chose to make them public in an attempt to do the right thing. It's cancelled because the sex robot from Todd's wacky misadventure made the company crash. This effectively lets Bojack off the hook again, removing him from tangible consequences and punishing him only with his own guilt like every other season. There was a good opportunity to punish Bojack in a different way this time, but instead it's randomly cut-off at the last minute, deflating the momentum that the Penny and Gina incidents had.
Besides the lack of episode-to-episode throughput, the season is also inconsistent with which events it decides to use for comic relief and which ones it doesn't. This season (and the show in general) takes sexual misconduct pretty seriously, but in the episode where Todd visits the Axolotl family, the mother exposes herself and makes clearly unwanted advances towards him, and it's played for comedy. Objectively, this is all farcical enough that I don't have a problem with it (and, indeed, I found the episode pretty funny), but it's tonally inconsistent with the times when sexual misconduct is played straight. (Plus, like I mentioned earlier, the behavior of Skip towards Bojack is completely forgotten about after "The Lightbulb Scene.") The season also takes Bojack's pill-popping habit and the harmful affects it has on others seriously at the end, but near the beginning, he drives drunk to Princess Carolyn's office and it's played for laughs.
There's plenty I liked about the season, but I think it's also easily the weakest one thus far, and I think it's emblematic of the problems I foresaw this show having early on. It's going to be difficult to write the show to a conclusion and end it at some point, because it seems equally unsatisfying for Bojack himself to either receive redemption and improve himself or fall so far that it completely destroys him, but leaving him in stasis would be an underwhelming note for the show to go out on. Season 5 ends with Bojack in more or less the same place he's been in up to now, with him feeling guilty and hurting the people around him but not receiving much in the way of tangible societal consequences, and with him promising he's going to be better and do the right things, but not having much opportunity to do so. Season 4's ending was encouraging, because it moved Bojack towards redemption and happiness in a believable and satisfying way, and it had me optimistic that season 5 would capitalize on that more. Season 5 had a lot of opportunities to accomplish that by showing how "being good" is difficult and could have a markedly negative effect on his life, but it veers around this without diving in.
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Post by Jeremy on Sept 16, 2018 10:37:51 GMT -8
What made this season so effective for me (apart from the usual great writing and humor) was that, while there's less episode-to-episode continuity, the individual episodes take advantage of their freedom by taking the series in more unexpected and ambitious directions, without ever letting the sheer nuttiness overshadow the characters. "INT. SUB" for example, is among the most thoroughly bizarre episodes the show has ever produced, yet also features one of the most disturbing and uncomfortable endings. Whenever I think Bojack can't plumb any further depths of daftness and darkness, the new season always finds a way to prove me wrong. I kind of agree re. the Skip and Peanutbutter/Diane criticisms, although I think they're compensated in part, respectively, by Rami Malek's hilarious off-kilter performance and "Mr. Peanutbutter's Boos," a delightful episode made more compelling by keeping the end of Peanutbutter's relationship with Diane relatively in the dark. Furthermore, while "Free Churro" was indeed a great episode that does justice to the storyline with Bojack's mother from the previous season, it's a little weird that her death or impending death was never mentioned before that episode that I recall. As a comparison, in season 1 with Herb's death, for multiple episodes leading up to "The Telescope," there were several mentions that Herb was going to die soon and Bojack wanted to speak with him before it happened, and it both colored his actions before the episode, and built-up suspense for when the episode actually came. The plotline wasn't crammed into one episode with no lead-up. I don't think "Free Churro" would have worked nearly as well as it did if there had been prior buildup. The episode is designed to hit pause on the show for 25 minutes, and invite viewers into this empty, evocative stasis with no company except Bojack and a closed casket. The sheer dryness of the episode (in stark contrast to the more emotional material we got surrounding Bojack's mother in Season Four) wouldn't have felt the same way if there had been buildup in earlier Season Five episodes. The death of his mother is brilliantly treated almost as an interruption, an abberation, to Bojack's larger story arc, and his monologue encapsulates why it can't be anything more. Isn't this the way the show usually plays things, though? Introduce story elements as comedy in early episodes, then reveal their darker undertones later in the season. That's pretty consistent with how Bojack has worked since Season One. Cancelling Philbert due to Bojack's behavior going public would have felt too easy. It would allow all the other characters, as well as the public at large, to turn on him for a single baseline reason. Having him internalize the guilt, and lose the show anyway, is much more devastating for him, since he can't just let the consequences of his actions take over his life. He wants to take the easy way out, which is why he asks Diane to write the expose, but life - as the show often tells us - doesn't often allow for the easy way. Season Five could have focused on Bojack's attempted redemption, but it decided to go a more unexpected route - have Bojack under the impression that he's improving as a person (or horseman), while compartmentalizing all his ever-present flaws in the character of Philbert. By the end of the season, the line between Bojack and Philbert has been fully erased, and we're left wondering if there was ever any difference in the first place. That's the message the season ultimately conveys - in order for Bojack to get better, he can't simply fool himself into thinking he is better. A lot of critics have drawn comparisons between Bojack and Don Draper, since they're both powerful and immoral men who, try as they might, keep falling back on their old, awful ways. Bojack has an advantage over Mad Men (which had grown somewhat redundant by its own fifth season) because as a cartoon, it has a broader number of tools in its arsenal, and can take its lead into more unusual and unexpected directions. I don't know if Bojack himself will ever truly be a good person (or hors... you get the idea), but even if the end of Season Five isn't the start of his true redemption, it still opens the door to another chapter in a fascinating journey.
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