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Post by ThirdMan on Sept 28, 2019 18:27:52 GMT -8
Neither Mad Men (with the emphasis on Betty, and horrible makeup job on Peggy) or Breaking Bad were at their peak early. Actually I feel very comfortable calling the first three episodes of Breaking Bad among the best of the show but ok. I recall thinking the pilot was strong, but didn't think the subsequent episodes were exceptional, and the writers' strike hurt it. Perhaps, though, I'm being somewhat influenced by the critics not exactly being fully on-board with the series at the outset. The show didn't get universal acclaim until its second season, much like Mad Men and Game of Thrones.
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Post by Jeremy on Sept 28, 2019 19:09:03 GMT -8
I think the first three episodes of Breaking Bad are quite strong, and handily dispel any notion that the series will adhere to a status quo, but the show as a whole doesn't really kick into Season Two. (Cranston's performance was pretty much the only thing garnering praise early on.) I feel almost compelled to tell people, "Well, listen, a character commits suicide in Episode 7, and then the show becomes a sort of treatise on depression and self-destruction...but it's a fair amount broader in the early going." It's kind of sad that we even have to resort to such tactics. What, have none of these folks ever seen a show improve drastically over time? Seen The Simpsons? Seinfeld? The Office? Parks and Rec? Neither Mad Men (with the emphasis on Betty, and horrible makeup job on Peggy) or Breaking Bad were at their peak early. Problem is twofold: (1) All those shows you listed debuted in the pre-Peak TV era, when people had a little more patience and were willing to stick with shows beyond weak openings. Tough to imagine The Office or Parks and Rec debuting in the current TV world (with weak six-episode opening seasons on NBC) and surviving for renewal. And (2) telling people what Bojack becomes isn't a good selling point, either, since fitting the words "animated talking horse" alongside "deep exploration of depression and psychosis" will make people look at you funny. (At least that's my experience.)
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Post by ThirdMan on Sept 28, 2019 20:51:06 GMT -8
True, but I just say that the exaggerated animal humour just helps the show maintain levity, so the series itself doesn't get too depressing or overwrought. I mean, has no one seen an animated series before? They tend to not just stick to depicting humans. At any rate, we're in agreement: your average viewer is pretty close-minded with regards to the arts.
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Post by Jeremy on Oct 25, 2019 12:35:19 GMT -8
The new season (eh, half-season) of Bojack is very good, with its prime drawback being its abbreviated length. As is typical of the show, the first half features some quasi-lighthearted, quasi-standalone stories, and the season takes on more serious undertones (and loopier comedy) as it goes along. The problem is that, with only 8 episodes instead of 12, there isn't adequate time for the show to build up steam before its over - nor time for the season to feature a truly outre episode like "Fish Out of Water" or "Free Churro."
The closest we get to experimental is the midseason finale, which, oddly, is one of the season's weaker episodes overall. It feels like the writers riffing on a certain famous Simpsons episode, and while it does take a more serious turn in its last few minutes, it feels more like a placeholder than a real finale.
But I guess that's to be expected, since this isn't meant to be a full season. Have I ever mentioned that I hate season-splitting?
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Post by ThirdMan on Oct 25, 2019 13:32:08 GMT -8
I just watched the first two episodes last night. I might do two-per-night and finish on Sunday.
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Post by ThirdMan on Oct 28, 2019 17:17:22 GMT -8
Yeah, that midseason finale is odd, in terms of it re-introducing a ton of characters we haven't seen in a while, and sort of casting Bojack himself aside. I think it would've made more sense as a premiere for the second half. Regardless, this was still another A- season of television, in my estimation. And if we're ranking purely in terms of consistent quality, this show is right there on the short list of greatest animated series of all time, possibly even topping The Simpsons' best years (at least in terms of emotional resonance, if not overall laughs). Unfortunately, the animal-human-hybrid humour is not going to be on the wavelength of many viewers, regardless of the quality of the writing, acting, and direction. As with BtVS, it can be a hard sell, particularly given its middling start.
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Post by Jeremy on Oct 28, 2019 20:00:36 GMT -8
My first impression while watching the midseason finale was that the writers were trying to riff on "22 Short Films About Springfield" (and it wouldn't be the first animated show to try - Amazing World of Gumball did a similar "minor characters only" episode with "The Extras"). But obviously, Bojack always has something more up its sleeve - in this case, a deep-cut callback to one of the show's darkest episodes.
In a way, it's not dissimilar to that midseason finale of Breaking Bad - just when the lead character thinks he's free and clean, a relative of his discovers a terrible secret about his past. It's a clever turn of events; I'm just not sure the rest of the episode was all that successful in getting us there.
In any case, an A- sounds about right for this season. Not the show's best, but still head and shoulders above most of its competition. I don't think I'd rank it above The Simpsons' golden years, but... the fact that I even had to consider that is a sign of how impactful this show really is.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Oct 29, 2019 21:49:30 GMT -8
My first impression while watching the midseason finale was that the writers were trying to riff on "22 Short Films About Springfield" (and it wouldn't be the first animated show to try - Amazing World of Gumball did a similar "minor characters only" episode with "The Extras"). But obviously, Bojack always has something more up its sleeve - in this case, a deep-cut callback to one of the show's darkest episodes. In a way, it's not dissimilar to that midseason finale of Breaking Bad - just when the lead character thinks he's free and clean, a relative of his discovers a terrible secret about his past. It's a clever turn of events; I'm just not sure the rest of the episode was all that successful in getting us there. In any case, an A- sounds about right for this season. Not the show's best, but still head and shoulders above most of its competition. I don't think I'd rank it above The Simpsons' golden years, but... the fact that I even had to consider that is a sign of how impactful this show really is. I haven't seen the season (or half-season, ugh) yet, but I definitely concur with that. It might not quite top golden-age Simpsons, but it's right up there with it. It has basically yet to put a foot wrong since its rocky start in Season 1. I think it's easily one of the very best shows of all time. It balances comedy and drama better than almost any other. It uses long-form storytelling well while producing episodes that reach stratospheric heights. It's acerbic, devastating, and gleefully absurd and hilarious. It's also got Will Arnett, Alison Brie, Aaron Paul, Paul F. Tomkins, and Amy Sedaris-if that's not a dream team I don't know what is. I've said it before, but my favorite shows aren't the ones that do one thing really well. They usually swing at 100 different angles, and succeed at most of them-and BoJack is one of the very finest examples of that. It can pretty much be anything it wants. I'm honestly not sure what else you could ask for from an animated tv show.
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Post by ThirdMan on Oct 30, 2019 0:32:17 GMT -8
Perhaps a little less bestiality.
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Post by otherscott on Nov 11, 2019 7:23:45 GMT -8
I finished the first half of Season 6 yesterday, and this is a case where I don't actually mind the split seasons. This is much more akin to a network television winter break than something like The Sopranos or Breaking Bad or Mad Men split where the show took a normal amount of time between seasons off.
And I thought the finale was perfect for the half season. The whole season finally led up to the second last episode where Bojack is doing away with his past and basically is fully committed to becoming better. And then, that finale sweeps that rug out and starts to show the damage that's really been done. We have many of Bojack's worst episodes from seasons past come back, from Penny to Sarah Lynn to Gina - showing that even if the horse man himself changes the damage he's done to people is never going to go away. It's a really melancholy note to end on for a season (half of one, anyways) that had been the most positive in Bojack history.
There were definitely things that didn't work for me this season though, between the assistant's strike and Todd wasn't at his best. Still a solid season, right in line with where Bojack has been hitting lately.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Nov 11, 2019 8:49:12 GMT -8
I finished the first half of Season 6 yesterday, and this is a case where I don't actually mind the split seasons. This is much more akin to a network television winter break than something like The Sopranos or Breaking Bad or Mad Men split where the show took a normal amount of time between seasons off. And I thought the finale was perfect for the half season. The whole season finally led up to the second last episode where Bojack is doing away with his past and basically is fully committed to becoming better. And then, that finale sweeps that rug out and starts to show the damage that's really been done. We have many of Bojack's worst episodes from seasons past come back, from Penny to Sarah Lynn to Gina - showing that even if the horse man himself changes the damage he's done to people is never going to go away. It's a really melancholy note to end on for a season (half of one, anyways) that had been the most positive in Bojack history. There were definitely things that didn't work for me this season though, between the assistant's strike and Todd wasn't at his best. Still a solid season, right in line with where Bojack has been hitting lately. I finished Season 6 yesterday as well. Overall, I thought it was really good, but I disagree with you about the final episode, mostly. Up until the end, I wasn't really feeling it, but that ending was perfect. I thought it was going to end with the Sarah Lynn thing being discovered, but instead it ended with more personal-and devastating-consequences. Just brilliant. The 3 episodes that stood out to me as being really great were 1,4, and 7. 4 was probably the funniest of the season, and 1 and 7 nailed Bojack's development and his stagnating progress in re-hab.
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Post by ThirdMan on Feb 1, 2020 20:49:18 GMT -8
And thanks for reminding me about Bojack! Will watch the final stretch of episodes this weekend. Just finished the series. Needless to say, it will not make you feel better. (Figured I'd move this here.) I'm through the first three episodes now. Was rather lukewarm on the mid-season premiere (the students acting during his AA meeting felt rather forced to me), but episode two (or ten, if you will) was great. Third (or eleventh) episode was solid. Weirdly enough, though this show is certainly given to a great deal of despair in its storytelling, it doesn't actually depress me. But I'll, of course, report back once I've completed the series. I might watch a few more eps tonight, if I don't jump into Uncut Gems, which came out yesterday on Netflix as well.
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Post by Jeremy on Feb 4, 2020 20:53:15 GMT -8
Boo Netflix for not putting Uncut Gems onto its US platform.
But that's a problem for another time. I just finished the last run of Bojack episodes, and I'm quite happy with how the show ended. I would have preferred a single 12-episode season over two mini-seasons, but the show stuck the landing and featured outstanding individual episodes like "Good Damage" and "The View From Halfway Down." The finale was unexpectedly quiet and intimate - a wonderful sendoff for the show's core cast.
I like how the show's depiction of Bojack - his continued attempts to salvage his life, no matter the screw-ups he weathers - never felt contrived, even as the series continued to depict his relapses, through both internal and external forces. The series' use of continuity, meta-humor, stunt casting - everything clicked, and much of it serviced the characters and themes spectacularly. I'm very happy to have named this the best show of the 2010s; these last eight episodes prove how worthy it is of that honor.
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Post by ThirdMan on Feb 4, 2020 21:13:47 GMT -8
Glad to hear that one of the last two episodes (I've watched all but eps 15 and 16) is a classic: I agree that Good Damage is as well.
Uncut Gems isn't available on Netflix in the States? That's weird, given that (I believe) it's a Netflix-produced film. Regardless, you might not like it anyways. It's very coarse, and honestly, I'd say it's darker and more nihilistic in nature than JOKER. A lot of repetitive behaviour and profanity, and the main character is sort of infuriating. Sandler gives a committed performance, but I can fully understand why this got such a poor Cinemascore.
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Post by Incandescence 112 on Feb 5, 2020 14:51:49 GMT -8
Boo Netflix for not putting Uncut Gems onto its US platform. But that's a problem for another time. I just finished the last run of Bojack episodes, and I'm quite happy with how the show ended. I would have preferred a single 12-episode season over two mini-seasons, but the show stuck the landing and featured outstanding individual episodes like "Good Damage" and "The View From Halfway Down." The finale was unexpectedly quiet and intimate - a wonderful sendoff for the show's core cast. I like how the show's depiction of Bojack - his continued attempts to salvage his life, no matter the screw-ups he weathers - never felt contrived, even as the series continued to depict his relapses, through both internal and external forces. The series' use of continuity, meta-humor, stunt casting - everything clicked, and much of it serviced the characters and themes spectacularly. I'm very happy to have named this the best show of the 2010s; these last eight episodes prove how worthy it is of that honor. Before I leapt I should have seen The View From Halfway Down. No! I really should have thought about...The View From Halfway Down.
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